Obsessing about other people's health

[NorthShoreCoug]

One of the fundamental problems with most universal healthcare plans is that they have the perverse effect of incentivizing people toward not caring about their own health while becoming obsessive about everyone else's.

That is, since I am no longer responsible for paying for my own health care, I have less incentive to take care of my own health and to be wise in my healthcare spending habits.

However, since I am paying for everyone else's healthcare, I'm more likely to want to control others' choices as they relate to healthcare. Cutting down smoking rates, amount of fat intake, exercise, wearing motorcycle/bike helmets, and on and on. These habits increase health care costs, and so I am more likely to support nanny state intrusions on people's choices.

[il Padrino Ute]

One of the fundamental problems with most universal healthcare plans is that they have the perverse effect of incentivizing people toward not caring about their own health while becoming obsessive about everyone else's.

That is, since I am no longer responsible for paying for my own health care, I have less incentive to take care of my own health and to be wise in my healthcare spending habits.

However, since I am paying for everyone else's healthcare, I'm more likely to want to control others' choices as they relate to healthcare. Cutting down smoking rates, amount of fat intake, exercise, wearing motorcycle/bike helmets, and on and on. These habits increase health care costs, and so I am more likely to support nanny state intrusions on people's choices.

This is why nationalized health care is more about politics than it is about health care. As you point out, it's about controlling the lives of others.

[BlueHair]

One of the fundamental problems with most universal healthcare plans is that they have the perverse effect of incentivizing people toward not caring about their own health while becoming obsessive about everyone else's.

That is, since I am no longer responsible for paying for my own health care, I have less incentive to take care of my own health and to be wise in my healthcare spending habits.

However, since I am paying for everyone else's healthcare, I'm more likely to want to control others' choices as they relate to healthcare. Cutting down smoking rates, amount of fat intake, exercise, wearing motorcycle/bike helmets, and on and on. These habits increase health care costs, and so I am more likely to support nanny state intrusions on people's choices.

How does this differ from being on a group health plan paid for by the employer?

[il Padrino Ute]

How does this differ from being on a group health plan paid for by the employer?

My guess would be that the private employer paying for health care only passes the cost of coverage to it's employees, rather than to everyone else. IOW, your boss isn't paying for my health care because I don't work there.

[DU Ute]

How does this differ from being on a group health plan paid for by the employer?

While you might want to push those you work with to make healthier choices under a group plan, there isn't the same kind of incentive created to lobby for legislation controlling the habits of your fellow citizens.

[CardiacCoug]

However, since I am paying for everyone else's healthcare, I'm more likely to want to control others' choices as they relate to healthcare. Cutting down smoking rates, amount of fat intake, exercise, wearing motorcycle/bike helmets, and on and on. These habits increase health care costs, and so I am more likely to support nanny state intrusions on people's choices.

I think we need more financial incentives that reward people who see doctors for preventive care and we need financial penalties for people who do stupid things in regard to their health.

If you don't get your blood pressure and cholesterol checked and/or treated, you should pay more for health insurance. If you have an injury while engaged in risky behavior (like riding a motorcycle without a helmet), you should suffer more financial consequences than somebody who is injured through no fault of their own.

Call that a nanny state if you want, but we're never going to withhold expensive treatments from people who are reckless with their health. So the best alternative to restore "natural consequences" to the system is to put some logical incentives in place regarding health care.

[BlueHair]

My guess would be that the private employer paying for health care only passes the cost of coverage to it's employees, rather than to everyone else. IOW, your boss isn't paying for my health care because I don't work there.

It's just a smaller scale. I've never observed anyone letting their health go because insurance was free. I've also never seen anyone complaining because someone else on the plan was fat. National Health Insurance has it's problems, but I doubt causing the public to become lazy about their health is one of them.

[BlueHair]

I think we need more financial incentives that reward people who see doctors for preventive care and we need financial penalties for people who do stupid things in regard to their health.

If you don't get your blood pressure and cholesterol checked and/or treated, you should pay more for health insurance. If you have an injury while engaged in risky behavior (like riding a motorcycle without a helmet), you should suffer more financial consequences than somebody who is injured through no fault of their own.

Call that a nanny state if you want, but we're never going to withhold expensive treatments from people who are reckless with their health. So the best alternative to restore "natural consequences" to the system is to put some logical incentives in place regarding health care.

Everyone should have access to preventive health care.

[il Padrino Ute]

It's just a smaller scale. I've never observed anyone letting their health go because insurance was free. I've also never seen anyone complaining because someone else on the plan was fat. National Health Insurance has it's problems, but I doubt causing the public to become lazy about their health is one of them.

I still agree with the point that NorthShore is making in that when taxes are raised, people will start wondering why others aren't doing what they should to remain healthy.

Of course, I'm vehemently against having to pay more taxes than I already do, so my opinion on this is biased.

[CardiacCoug]

Everyone should have access to preventive health care.

But having "access" to preventive health care is not the same thing as receiving preventive health care. I see people in their 50s and 60s all the time with uncontrolled hypertension and diabetes who now have advanced coronary disease. They have always had health insurance but haven't seen a doctor in decades and never got any preventive care.

One way or another (I guess either through a fine or a rebate on health insurance costs), there needs to be an actual financial incentive to encourage people to see a doctor for preventive health care.

[RobinFinderson]

When we eventually decide to take care of the nation's children, routine checkups will be performed in people's homes. Teams of medical professionals will have a beat, kind of like a home teaching list, and they will 'visit' and examine everyone on the list one each year. Families that complete physicals will receive food stamps (which in the future won't have any stigma, because everyone will use them) for buying healthy food. Grocery stores will no longer carry junk food, and neither will fast food chains, so we can take comfort that our fellow citizens are eating nutritious food. To make sure that everyone is getting exercise, we will design cities where driving a car is a liability. Our streets will be turned into green spaces full of bike paths and walkways. Below the ground there will be mass transportation. To get anywhere will requires walking to a metro station, taking the train, and walking again to arrive at the final destination. People will just walk a lot more. There will also be fleets of public bikes. As an extension of the public transportation department we will maintain the fleet, collecting discarded bikes and keeping fleet centers stocked. Getting rid of the cars will also clean the air. The future is going to be awesome, once we get our priorities straight.

[il Padrino Ute]

When we eventually decide to take care of the nation's children, routine checkups will be performed in people's homes. Teams of medical professionals will have a beat, kind of like a home teaching list, and they will 'visit' and examine everyone on the list one each year. Families that complete physicals will receive food stamps (which in the future won't have any stigma, because everyone will use them) for buying healthy food. Grocery stores will no longer carry junk food, and neither will fast food chains, so we can take comfort that our fellow citizens are eating nutritious food. To make sure that everyone is getting exercise, we will design cities where driving a car is a liability. Our streets will be turned into green spaces full of bike paths and walkways. Below the ground there will be mass transportation. To get anywhere will requires walking to a metro station, taking the train, and walking again to arrive at the final destination. People will just walk a lot more. There will also be fleets of public bikes. As an extension of the public transportation department we will maintain the fleet, collecting discarded bikes and keeping fleet centers stocked. Getting rid of the cars will also clean the air. The future is going to be awesome, once we get our priorities straight.

Goodbye freedom.

[JohnnyLingo]

When we eventually decide to take care of the nation's children, routine checkups will be performed in people's homes. Teams of medical professionals will have a beat, kind of like a home teaching list, and they will 'visit' and examine everyone on the list one each year. Families that complete physicals will receive food stamps (which in the future won't have any stigma, because everyone will use them) for buying healthy food. Grocery stores will no longer carry junk food, and neither will fast food chains, so we can take comfort that our fellow citizens are eating nutritious food. To make sure that everyone is getting exercise, we will design cities where driving a car is a liability. Our streets will be turned into green spaces full of bike paths and walkways. Below the ground there will be mass transportation. To get anywhere will requires walking to a metro station, taking the train, and walking again to arrive at the final destination. People will just walk a lot more. There will also be fleets of public bikes. As an extension of the public transportation department we will maintain the fleet, collecting discarded bikes and keeping fleet centers stocked. Getting rid of the cars will also clean the air. The future is going to be awesome, once we get our priorities straight.

Sounds a lot like what Soviet Russia attempted.

Did you ever visit Soviet Russia?

[ERCougar]

When we eventually decide to take care of the nation's children, routine checkups will be performed in people's homes. Teams of medical professionals will have a beat, kind of like a home teaching list, and they will 'visit' and examine everyone on the list one each year. Families that complete physicals will receive food stamps (which in the future won't have any stigma, because everyone will use them) for buying healthy food. Grocery stores will no longer carry junk food, and neither will fast food chains, so we can take comfort that our fellow citizens are eating nutritious food. To make sure that everyone is getting exercise, we will design cities where driving a car is a liability. Our streets will be turned into green spaces full of bike paths and walkways. Below the ground there will be mass transportation. To get anywhere will requires walking to a metro station, taking the train, and walking again to arrive at the final destination. People will just walk a lot more. There will also be fleets of public bikes. As an extension of the public transportation department we will maintain the fleet, collecting discarded bikes and keeping fleet centers stocked. Getting rid of the cars will also clean the air. The future is going to be awesome, once we get our priorities straight.

You really need to just move to Europe.

I actually kind of like the idea of home visits for well-child checks. It's something pediatricians could do right now, and it may even pay off financially. Especially with large families, the decreased clinic costs would more than make up for the costs of driving to the home. Additionally, there is a lot of information to be gained from seeing a child's living environment--particularly useful for well-child checks. I did some home visits in residency and they were always very rewarding.

[NorthShoreCoug]

I think we need more financial incentives that reward people who see doctors for preventive care and we need financial penalties for people who do stupid things in regard to their health.

If you don't get your blood pressure and cholesterol checked and/or treated, you should pay more for health insurance. If you have an injury while engaged in risky behavior (like riding a motorcycle without a helmet), you should suffer more financial consequences than somebody who is injured through no fault of their own.

Call that a nanny state if you want, but we're never going to withhold expensive treatments from people who are reckless with their health. So the best alternative to restore "natural consequences" to the system is to put some logical incentives in place regarding health care.

I have no problem with - in fact, in many respects, I very much agree with - providing incentives to people to make healthy decisions. My employer does it with me - I actually get a few extra dollars in my paycheck if I participate in their "healthy living" program. What I in particular have a problem with is criminalizing choices.