The Public Bathroom Test for Gender

[dabrockster]

DB, you are being ridiculous.

JL: One thing I have tried to do is keep an open mind and be willing to listen and hear other people’s feelings an opinions on many topics. While my opinion may not be what you want to hear or if I am not as open to things, at least I am willing and appreciate the decent conversation in a respectful manner.

While you take a juvenile/trolling response to me being honest on this topic. I suggest you take an open mind (You love to announce here) and accommodating approach rather than you bull shit answer above and either engage in a thoughtful manner or shove off…

[scottie]

JL: One thing I have tried to do is keep an open mind and be willing to listen and hear other people’s feelings an opinions on many topics. While my opinion may not be what you want to hear or if I am not as open to things, at least I am willing and appreciate the decent conversation in a respectful manner.

While you take a juvenile/trolling response to me being honest on this topic. I suggest you take an open mind (You love to announce here) and accommodating approach rather than you bull shit answer above and either engage in a thoughtful manner or shove off…

Following

[wally]

I was at the gym a while ago and there was an anatomically male transgender person that I saw walk right into the women's locker room. Just thought you'd all like to know.

On a another note, one anecdote that I'm surprised we are not hearing is potential for emotional stress on victims of sex abuse. If you've ever known a female victim (they say 1 in 3) many are universally uncomfortable around men after being victimized by one. I am surprised that I haven't heard or read anything about Victims of abuse being opposed to an opposite sex transgender in the shower with them at the gym or whatever. Seems like a great opportunity for the opposition to transgender bathroom use crowd.

[YOhio]

JL: One thing I have tried to do is keep an open mind and be willing to listen and hear other people’s feelings an opinions on many topics. While my opinion may not be what you want to hear or if I am not as open to things, at least I am willing and appreciate the decent conversation in a respectful manner.

While you take a juvenile/trolling response to me being honest on this topic. I suggest you take an open mind (You love to announce here) and accommodating approach rather than you bull shit answer above and either engage in a thoughtful manner or shove off…

[Jeff Lebowski]

JL: One thing I have tried to do is keep an open mind and be willing to listen and hear other people’s feelings an opinions on many topics. While my opinion may not be what you want to hear or if I am not as open to things, at least I am willing and appreciate the decent conversation in a respectful manner.

While you take a juvenile/trolling response to me being honest on this topic. I suggest you take an open mind (You love to announce here) and accommodating approach rather than you bull shit answer above and either engage in a thoughtful manner or shove off…

I am sincere, DB. You are being utterly ridiculous here. Keep your kid in public school. Nothing bad will happen due to this DOJ letter.

[YOhio]

I haven't read much of this thread but my general position is that anyone with a wiener needs to stay in the men's bathroom, no matter what gender they identify with. As the joke says, it's where the dicks hang out! But also anyone else should feel free to use the men's room. Wgas? It's gross in there. If a natural born female wants to go in there be my guest. Chances are pretty low that she's hot anyways.

[byu71]

JL: One thing I have tried to do is keep an open mind and be willing to listen and hear other people’s feelings an opinions on many topics. While my opinion may not be what you want to hear or if I am not as open to things, at least I am willing and appreciate the decent conversation in a respectful manner.

While you take a juvenile/trolling response to me being honest on this topic. I suggest you take an open mind (You love to announce here) and accommodating approach rather than you bull shit answer above and either engage in a thoughtful manner or shove off…

Atta boy, stand yer ground. JL enjoys trying to bullying people.

[Clark Addison]

While you initial comment leaves a critical eye on your questions and being sincere but I will answer honestly.

Brock, you have said things like this to both me and JL. Did you ever think that my response may have been based on the way you asked the question, where you imply that those that see this as a civil rights issue are "cloaking" it, and acting dishonestly? Don't go throwing out broad accusations and then get defensive when people react in a similar manner.

Question 2:

That is a difficult question, and I slightly broached the answer above. There really is no easy answer, but co-mingling bathrooms in my opinion is NOT the answer. It leaves so much opportunity for emotional/mental impacts for both the transgender and non-transgender. I do not think the pushing of this agenda (From such a small percentage of the population) is the proper answer. Sure, you have individuals who see this as their “right”, but other people’s rights should be considered not just a minority group even within the transgender population. I think gender neutral bathrooms/lockers would be ideal. Again, you will have those who are on the extreme who will not agree with this option and will push this more so than the majority. However, what is the heart of the problem. They do not want to use the bathroom that is not of their gender (By their opinion), so remove them from having to use that bathroom and providing a gender neutral option, allows them to not feel forced into that bathroom any further. This resolves the problem. Yes, these gender neutral bathrooms can still be problematic is they are co-mingled. Yet isn’t that what they are trying to make happen anyway? So their argument is a farce if they do not like the gender neutral option.

I really do not know what the answer is, but this blanket policy decision is NOT the answer. It doesn’t even have true thought or intent on a policy.

I don't disagree that it can be a difficult question. But until someone can offer a better solution, I don't see how we can take people who see themselves completely as women, and say "You have to use the Men's room.". I think that a separate "Gender Neutral" bathroom is even worse; it just smacks of "Separate but Equal".

In addition, what do you do with people who are physically cannot be classified neatly as one gender? What are they supposed to do?

[smokymountainrain]

DB, you are being ridiculous.

personal attack!

[Flystripper]

I just don't get it. Even after hearing DB's and other's objections I still don't really understand what people are worried about. This isn't going to open the floodgates for perverts in opposite bathrooms. Perverts already can ignore bathroom signage. You really think your kid will be traumatized if the bathroom stall opens up and the little girl happens to have a wiener? I would bet your pre-schooler couldn't care less. Its so odd that people object so strongly to transgenders using bathrooms based on gender identity. The objections raised are so hollow. Heaven forbid parents have to have discussions with their children about things that make the parents uncomfortable. I guarantee the kids are mostly just curious and not all that uncomfortable.

I am for co-ed bathrooms in facilities most frequented by adults. Hopefully it would inspire men to be less disgusting and show some modicum of respect for their personal hygiene if they knew a female could walk in at any minute.

[wally]

I am for co-ed bathrooms in facilities most frequented by adults. Hopefully it would inspire men to be less disgusting and show some modicum of respect for their personal hygiene if they knew a femal could walk in at any minute.

Sexist! Women can be just as disgusting as men!!

[byu71]

Would I be in trouble if I wandered into a girls shower area and claimed I just felt like a woman today? That would save having to blame it on old age and not noticing the sign.

[old_gregg]

Would I be in trouble if I wandered into a girls shower area and claimed I just felt like a woman today? That would save having to blame it on old age and not noticing the sign.

depends on if you're doing the mangina tuck or not

[Northwestcoug]

I am listening to all of them, for the journey this Mother and her daughter are going through. It was enlightening and I also found some of the discussions interesting. I cannot imagine as a parent having to figure out how to navigate through this complex and sensitive situation. I found myself agreeing and disagreeing with her comments and opinion. One example, is I agree, that it is no one else’s business “what is in her daughter’s pants” nor should they have to ask or divulge this. However, no matter what precautions she takes or tells her daughter to take, while at school, there still is the chance that the stall will open, or her private area may become exposed by accident, then there is that problem. Sure, this may be a stretch but there is that possibility and possible ramifications. This is why having a Gender Neutral bathroom may be ideal to address concerns on both sides. There has to be a common compromise that is thoughtful and not hurtful for either sides.

I also found the mature conversations she kept trying to have with her 6 year old daughter did not really have the impact that she was wanting. That has to be frustrating on so many levels as she has accepted her daughter and is trying to help her. This woman is a thoughtful woman and Mother. She has taken a very honest and approach for both sides, and has questioned herself throughout this journey. She is very respectful of all on this. She should be commended for her actions. She was private, discreet, and then now open and honest about her daughter and helping her daughter not feel scared for who she is. To take that approach knowing the possible ridicule her daughter may face after it becomes public in her school is very brave.


Thanks SullyUte for sharing that podcast

Help me out Brock. What 'possibilities' and 'possible ramifications' are you thinking? Is it you don't want to broach the subject of intersex/transgendered people with young children? If so, wouldn't a gender neutral bathroom raise that issue eventually? Wouldn't a child ask a parent why some people use the segregated bathrooms?

[Moliere]

I just don't get it. Even after hearing DB's and other's objections I still don't really understand what people are worried about. This isn't going to open the floodgates for perverts in opposite bathrooms. Perverts already can ignore bathroom signage. You really think your kid will be traumatized if the bathroom stall opens up and the little girl happens to have a wiener? I would bet your pre-schooler couldn't care less. Its so odd that people object so strongly to transgenders using bathrooms based on gender identity. The objections raised are so hollow. Heaven forbid parents have to have discussions with their children about things that make the parents uncomfortable. I guarantee the kids are mostly just curious and not all that uncomfortable.

I am for co-ed bathrooms in facilities most frequented by adults. Hopefully it would inspire men to be less disgusting and show some modicum of respect for their personal hygiene if they knew a female could walk in at any minute.

It's a solution looking for a problem. I'm sure there are one-off issues that happen from time to time, but they don't need sweeping legislation like NC to fix them. That's like trying to hunt squirrels with a bazooka.

Obama isn't making this any better either with his executorial decree to all public schools. Of course, Obama has always been a horrible leader so it doesn't surprise me that he no longer pretends to try and get people to follow him and just jumps to telling people what to do.