Guns

[ERCougar]

I think they have but I would like to see the questions and then any data to indicate how public opinion polls would gauge the unavoidable results, namely government maintained registers of gun owners, of such checks.

I didn't understand why the President put so much political capital into this issue. I thought when he put fightin' Joe on a super-duper committee he would wisely exhaust the emotion of the moment of his base, but alas I think he got himself convinced it was him against the NRA.

Didn't the act specifically prohibit a government maintained registry? I'm just going off what I heard on NPR yesterday.

For those of us who aren't paying close attention, this looks like a special-interest funded blocking of what a majority of both the public and the Senate wanted. I don't think that's a political loser for the President.

[Surfah]

I think they have but I would like to see the questions and then any data to indicate how public opinion polls would gauge the unavoidable results, namely government maintained registers of gun owners, of such checks.

I didn't understand why the President put so much political capital into this issue. I thought when he put fightin' Joe on a super-duper committee he would wisely exhaust the emotion of the moment of his base, but alas I think he got himself convinced it was him against the NRA.

While the background checks may have support, the bigger issue is that most Americans don't think gun control as a whole is a huge issue. Gallup had a poll two days ago that showed only 4% of Americans think gun control is the most important issue in America. That's where Obama effed up. He made it a primary issue when Americans would rather have solutions to the economy, jobs, budget, government, healthcare, etc. Ethical/Moral/Family Decline was a more important issue facing America than gun control in that poll.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Why Reid now is backing an assault weapons ban...http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...apons.html.csp

As an LDS Democrat, I'm glad Reid is speaking up in these terms.

[Eddie]

I think they have but I would like to see the questions and then any data to indicate how public opinion polls would gauge the unavoidable results, namely government maintained registers of gun owners, of such checks.

I didn't understand why the President put so much political capital into this issue. I thought when he put fightin' Joe on a super-duper committee he would wisely exhaust the emotion of the moment of his base, but alas I think he got himself convinced it was him against the NRA.

It's like he just can't stand to lose anything or ever be wrong. Reminds me again of what we keep hearing described as Chicago-style politics.

As an LDS Democrat, I'm glad Reid is speaking up in these terms.

I don't have a problem with it. I agree with the concept that sometimes it takes courage to stand up for what you believe in. Obviously President Monson was speaking about something other than gun control at the time, but the idea of having courage to stand up for what you believe in is valid across a variety of subjects.

I just think that he is wrong about some of the stuff he has the courage to stand up for.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

I, too, would be interested in the questions asked during all of those polls taken right after Sandy Hook. The interesting thing is, they redid some of the polls a month or two later and the public's initial outrage had begun to mellow. I think everyone's initial reaction is that something has to be done. And I'm right there with them. But the next question is - What? And that is a difficult one to ask. In all seriousness - what could have been done by way of gun law that would've stopped Sandy Hook? And is everyone else ready for the consequences that those laws would've had on the rest of us?

[Pheidippides]

While the background checks may have support, the bigger issue is that most Americans don't think gun control as a whole is a huge issue. Gallup had a poll two days ago that showed only 4% of Americans think gun control is the most important issue in America. That's where Obama effed up. He made it a primary issue when Americans would rather have solutions to the economy, jobs, budget, government, healthcare, etc. Ethical/Moral/Family Decline was a more important issue facing America than gun control in that poll.

It's the exact same reason Obamacare was a PR cluster---- for him at the time. Maybe Obamacare will be great and all that, and maybe it will suck, but to do it smack dab in the middle o the Great Recession? People didn't care about health care reform. They cared about jobs. It's like the guy has no pulse on the actual populous.

As an aside, I don't believe that ethical/moral/family decline exists.

[kccougar]

I think they have but I would like to see the questions and then any data to indicate how public opinion polls would gauge the unavoidable results, namely government maintained registers of gun owners, of such checks.

I didn't understand why the President put so much political capital into this issue. I thought when he put fightin' Joe on a super-duper committee he would wisely exhaust the emotion of the moment of his base, but alas I think he got himself convinced it was him against the NRA.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think he did it as a smokescreen for the healthcare debacle. He had to know within the first couple weeks after Sandy Hook that the gun bill wasn't going anywhere.

[kccougar]

As an LDS Democrat, I'm glad Reid is speaking up in these terms.

But what's funny is that Reid personally supports gun rights. It's kind of sad that as a democrat he feels like he can't vote his conscience on this issue. Courage indeed.

[Goatnapper'96]

Didn't the act specifically prohibit a government maintained registry? I'm just going off what I heard on NPR yesterday.

For those of us who aren't paying close attention, this looks like a special-interest funded blocking of what a majority of both the public and the Senate wanted. I don't think that's a political loser for the President.

How can there be a background check on an individual to buy a gun and the government doesn't have a log of who was checked for that purpose?

I don't think the level of fear is really there about guns to convince most Americans that the invasion of privacy is worth it. My point is that I think nobody really believes there is such widespread support of background checks if folks were asked about whether or not they supported the ramifications of the checks. It is similar, IMO, to Obama arguing that even though the public polls overwhelmingly indicated opposition to ObamaCare the individual aspects polled well.

My opinion is gun control is a losing issue for Democrats. Americans like freedom that is why gay marriage and abortion rights are winning issues for Democrats.

[Goatnapper'96]

While the background checks may have support, the bigger issue is that most Americans don't think gun control as a whole is a huge issue. Gallup had a poll two days ago that showed only 4% of Americans think gun control is the most important issue in America. That's where Obama effed up. He made it a primary issue when Americans would rather have solutions to the economy, jobs, budget, government, healthcare, etc. Ethical/Moral/Family Decline was a more important issue facing America than gun control in that poll.

Obama is a hard core liberal and he wants to take away your guns. He really does. His base does as well. They sought to exploit an emotionally charged environment to accomplish a goal of the left wing base. It is similar to the Republicans going to war in the aftermath of 9/11.

As the issue evolved I think that Obama and the left figured out it was a losing issue, and thus tried to get a watered down bill that they could emotionally claim as a great victory for their "reasonable" and "common sense" goals, but Obama made a personal fight between him and the NRA. His ego became the issue then. I think in the end he eff'd it up by making it so personal that many who might not be that offended by this individual bill made the decision that while this bill would not have crushed gun owner rights it really wasn't going to do any good to prevent anything like SandyHook. Hence, the only utility this bill could provide was watching Obama lose. Certainly "reasonable" people posessing "common sense" can agree that anyone motivated by such sentiments if obviously a racist.

[ERCougar]

How can there be a background check on an individual to buy a gun and the government doesn't have a log of who was checked for that purpose?

I don't think the level of fear is really there about guns to convince most Americans that the invasion of privacy is worth it. My point is that I think nobody really believes there is such widespread support of background checks if folks were asked about whether or not they supported the ramifications of the checks. It is similar, IMO, to Obama arguing that even though the public polls overwhelmingly indicated opposition to ObamaCare the individual aspects polled well.

My opinion is gun control is a losing issue for Democrats. Americans like freedom that is why gay marriage and abortion rights are winning issues for Democrats.

I guess I don't know the specifics, but why would the government have to keep a log? There are background checks for all kinds of purposes all the time, right down to volunteering to read at my kids' school. I suspect that the government doesn't maintain a log of these either.

[Surfah]

Obama is a hard core liberal and he wants to take away your guns. He really does. His base does as well. They sought to exploit an emotionally charged environment to accomplish a goal of the left wing base. It is similar to the Republicans going to war in the aftermath of 9/11.

As the issue evolved I think that Obama and the left figured out it was a losing issue, and thus tried to get a watered down bill that they could emotionally claim as a great victory for their "reasonable" and "common sense" goals, but Obama made a personal fight between him and the NRA. His ego became the issue then. I think in the end he eff'd it up by making it so personal that many who might not be that offended by this individual bill made the decision that while this bill would not have crushed gun owner rights it really wasn't going to do any good to prevent anything like SandyHook. Hence, the only utility this bill could provide was watching Obama lose. Certainly "reasonable" people posessing "common sense" can agree that anyone motivated by such sentiments if obviously a racist.

Yeah and it seems that the emotional window of opportunity is closed for now. Only 48% of Americans want stricter gun laws now. Down from 58% right after Sandy Hook. While 52% now disapprove of Obama's handling of gun control. Looks like Reid will shelve it and pull it back out later. Hopefully it is not after another tragedy.

[Eddie]

I guess I don't know the specifics, but why would the government have to keep a log? There are background checks for all kinds of purposes all the time, right down to volunteering to read at my kids' school. I suspect that the government doesn't maintain a log of these either.

I think the biggest issue is that of trust. I think that the government has demonstrated on many occasions that they are more than capable of saying that they won't do something, and then they turn around and do it. I say "government", recognizing that it is folks within the government. Even if the government isn't supposed to keep a log of these things, I think the fear is that some folks who believe otherwise will go ahead and start keeping a log anyway.

In all honesty, I'm not sure about the hubbub surrounding background checks. You have to do them to purchase a new gun. So at some point there has been a background check on every gun in circulation since that began. In theory, I don't have a problem with background checks for other other gun sales - but I do wonder about the process.

Like I believe that the government is capable of doing something they say they aren't going to - I also have faith in the governments ability to turn something that should be quick and simple into something gargantuan, expensive, and time consuming. Particularly if the process results in a person owning something that the person running the process doesn't think they should have.

[kccougar]

The NSA didn't just spend $1.5B on the new Utah "Spy" Center for nothing.

[ERCougar]

Yeah and it seems that the emotional window of opportunity is closed for now. Only 48% of Americans want stricter gun laws now. Down from 58% right after Sandy Hook. While 52% now disapprove of Obama's handling of gun control. Looks like Reid will shelve it and pull it back out later. Hopefully it is not after another tragedy.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

From what looks to be the same source, first poll on the list, done last week. 56% say that Obama should "keep trying" to pass changes to gun control laws should the then-current effort fail in Congress.

[Goatnapper'96]

Yeah and it seems that the emotional window of opportunity is closed for now. Only 48% of Americans want stricter gun laws now. Down from 58% right after Sandy Hook. While 52% now disapprove of Obama's handling of gun control. Looks like Reid will shelve it and pull it back out later. Hopefully it is not after another tragedy.

On a side note is there much polling to any issue wrt "How has the President handled _____" that President Obama polls well?

Gun control is a dead issue for this Congress. There are 55 in the Democrat cacaus. Heitkamp, Baucus, Pryor and Begich will not sacrifice their political career for gun control. That means the Democrats need to pick up 9 Republicans. The President got I think 4 this go around. That means he needs 5 more, with how the President behaved over his loss and his efforts to use emotional blackmail, that is not going to happen, IMO.