The Fiscal Cliff

[Uncle Ted]

Utah voters never got to choose between Bennett and Lee. Those Tea Party bastards rigged the caucuses and Lee got enough votes to avoid a primary. All the polls showed that Bennett would have won. Champion of the constitution, my ass.

Who in the heck came up with a bonehead Utah caucus system? It must be true that the tea partiers are more educated b**turds given they pulled off something like that.

[Uncle Ted]

Yes, the outdoors in Texas totally sucks compared to Utah.

Yeah, only in the summers when it is hot. But that is when you want to hit the swimming holes... which are not owned by the federal government either.

hamiltonpool.jpg

It is pretty amazing to me, however, that only 30% of Utah is either privately or state own. No wonder it doesn't have any money for its schools. 0% (or $15mm of the $3+b) comes from land trusts...



http://www.utaheducationfacts.com/in...ding&Itemid=63

[byu71]

Who in the heck came up with a bonehead Utah caucus system? It must be true that the tea partiers are more educated b**turds given they pulled off something like that.

The bonehead caucus system could work if the people who are bitching about Lee, me included, would get off of our dead asses and participate. We sit back and let the radicals make the effort, reap the rewards and then we bitch from the sidelines. Note I keep using the term "we" as I certainly include myself.

I would though like to see the caucus system changed because I don't think the general public will. We have other things to do and we can always bitch later.

[Uncle Ted]

The bonehead caucus system could work if the people who are bitching about Lee, me included, would get off of our dead asses and participate. We sit back and let the radicals make the effort, reap the rewards and then we bitch from the sidelines. Note I keep using the term "we" as I certainly include myself.

I would though like to see the caucus system changed because I don't think the general public will. We have other things to do and we can always bitch later.

Maybe you could get Utah caucus system to work to your benefit. Maybe you can get all the Utah CS'ers around here to rid of that SOB Orrin Hatch and you elected in his place. Look how much money Harry made as Senator. When you do make it as senator just remember me when I come to you with my pork project idea.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The bonehead caucus system could work if the people who are bitching about Lee, me included, would get off of our dead asses and participate. We sit back and let the radicals make the effort, reap the rewards and then we bitch from the sidelines. Note I keep using the term "we" as I certainly include myself.

I would though like to see the caucus system changed because I don't think the general public will. We have other things to do and we can always bitch later.

Up yours. I have gone to every caucus for the past 20 years. It is a ridiculous system that is easy to manipulate. The Tea Party actually holds training sessions to teach their people how to manipulate the caucus process with the express intention of packing the convention to get a 60% majority and avoid a primary. They don't even hide it.

Everyone in Utah needs to support the "Count My Vote" initiative that intends to abolish the caucus system. Not surprisingly, the Utah legislature is fighting it.

http://countmyvoteutah.org/

[byu71]

Up yours. I have gone to every caucus for the past 20 years. It is a ridiculous system that is easy to manipulate. The Tea Party actually holds training sessions to teach their people how to manipulate the caucus process with the express intention of packing the convention to get a 60% majority and avoid a primary. They don't even hide it.

Everyone in Utah needs to support the "Count My Vote" initiative that intends to abolish the caucus system. Not surprisingly, the Utah legislature is fighting it.

http://countmyvoteutah.org/

Up yours??? Is that from vent up frustration from previous posts of mine. Heck, I took a shot at those radicals who manipulate the convention and those of us who don't show up like you do to fight them. Up yours??

I think I like Jefe's attitude better. Just suspend me a few days.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Up yours??? Is that from vent up frustration from previous posts of mine. Heck, I took a shot at those radicals who manipulate the convention and those of us who don't show up like you do to fight them. Up yours??

I think I like Jefe's attitude better. Just suspend me a few days.

Lighten up, Francis. Just responding to the notion that greater participation is the solution to the problem.

[byu71]

Lighten up, Francis. Just responding to the notion that greater participation is the solution to the problem.

Are you under some kind of pressure today. I think my message was greater particpation is the solution. A count my vote initiative encourages greater participation, does it not.

By the way, lighten up Francis is so Utah County in the 50's.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Are you under some kind of pressure today. I think my message was greater particpation is the solution. A count my vote initiative encourages greater participation, does it not.

Greater participation will not fix the problem with the caucus system. That's the point. It is not malfunctioning due to lazy voters as you imply. It is a flawed process. The Count My Vote initiative intends to change the process. Huge difference.

By the way, lighten up Francis is so Utah County in the 50's.

The phrase comes from a Bill Murray movie that was released in 1981. Utah County was three decades ahead of their time.

[byu71]

Greater participation will not fix the problem with the caucus system. That's the point. It is not malfunctioning due to lazy voters as you imply. It is a flawed process. The Count My Vote initiative intends to change the process. Huge difference.

It may not "fix" it, but it would greatly improve it if your Count My Vote initiative doesn't get through. I am sure I heard Gayle R. bitchin about the additional people that showed up last time. Something about them being uniformed participants. There was an effort to get more "normal" people to the caucus's and it at least had the impact of ticking off Gayle. That is a good thing and a start.


The 50's, the 80's, it is all a blur to me.

[Jacob]

Utah voters never got to choose between Bennett and Lee. Those Tea Party bastards rigged the caucuses and Lee got enough votes to avoid a primary. All the polls showed that Bennett would have won. Champion of the constitution, my ass.

It is simply not true that Lee avoided a primary. Lee finished 2nd at the convention and Bennett finished 3rd. Lee won a state-wide primary against Bridgewater.

The convention system gave Utah the following list of some-what moderate republican state-wide office-holders:
John Huntsman - 2 terms
Herbtert - 2 terms
Mike Leavitt - 3 terms
Orrin Hatch - Unlimited terms
Bob Bennett - 3 terms (18 years)

So one single time, an outsider defeats a more moderate incumbent who had already been in office for 18 freaking years, and you guys are all up in arms about a system created by bastards. Bennett and Hatch have been challenged by more conservative opponents every singe lime, as have the governors, and won every time, except this once.

Down with Count my Vote! It is pretty absurd, in my view, to believe that the low information voters in the primary will do a better job than the caucus system.

If Lee is as unpopular as you all think, then he will lose in the caucus or he will lose in a primary because he won't get 60% at convention.

It is amusing that people like Leavitt are all up in arms trying to destroy the very system that got him elected 3 times. The only tea party-like successes have been Lee and Chaffets, but Chaffets was elected before the tea party came bout. His election is entirely unrelated.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It is simply not true that Lee avoided a primary. Lee finished 2nd at the convention and Bennett finished 3rd. Lee won a state-wide primary against Bridgewater.

The convention system gave Utah the following list of some-what moderate republican state-wide office-holders:
John Huntsman - 2 terms
Herbtert - 2 terms
Mike Leavitt - 3 terms
Orrin Hatch - Unlimited terms
Bob Bennett - 3 terms (18 years)

So one single time, an outsider defeats a more moderate incumbent who had already been in office for 18 freaking years, and you guys are all up in arms about a system created by bastards. Bennett and Hatch have been challenged by more conservative opponents every singe lime, as have the governors, and won every time, except this once.

Down with Count my Vote! It is pretty absurd, in my view, to believe that the low information voters in the primary will do a better job than the caucus system.

If Lee is as unpopular as you all think, then he will lose in the caucus or he will lose in a primary because he won't get 60% at convention.

It is amusing that people like Leavitt are all up in arms trying to destroy the very system that got him elected 3 times. The only tea party-like successes have been Lee and Chaffets, but Chaffets was elected before the tea party came bout. His election is entirely unrelated.

My bad on the details. But the Tea Party was out to torpedo Bob Bennett. Polls show that he would have defeated both Bridgewater or Lee.

Prior to the election I got an e-mail from the Utah Tea Party (Dave Kirkham is a friend of mine) that laid out the plans to manipulate the caucus system to get their candidates through the convention. They specifically said that the objective was to avoid primaries when possible and they were conducting training sessions on how to dominate the caucus process. I expressed my shock to Dave and was subsequently removed from the mailing list.

[byu71]

It is simply not true that Lee avoided a primary. Lee finished 2nd at the convention and Bennett finished 3rd. Lee won a state-wide primary against Bridgewater.

The convention system gave Utah the following list of some-what moderate republican state-wide office-holders:
John Huntsman - 2 terms
Herbtert - 2 terms
Mike Leavitt - 3 terms
Orrin Hatch - Unlimited terms
Bob Bennett - 3 terms (18 years)

So one single time, an outsider defeats a more moderate incumbent who had already been in office for 18 freaking years, and you guys are all up in arms about a system created by bastards. Bennett and Hatch have been challenged by more conservative opponents every singe lime, as have the governors, and won every time, except this once.

Down with Count my Vote! It is pretty absurd, in my view, to believe that the low information voters in the primary will do a better job than the caucus system.

If Lee is as unpopular as you all think, then he will lose in the caucus or he will lose in a primary because he won't get 60% at convention.

It is amusing that people like Leavitt are all up in arms trying to destroy the very system that got him elected 3 times. The only tea party-like successes have been Lee and Chaffets, but Chaffets was elected before the tea party came bout. His election is entirely unrelated.

Maybe my friends who are active in politics are wrong, but they have told me it is pretty dissapointing to see Gayle R. and her minions get in there and try to run everything. She and her Eagle Forum sure as hades does not represent the feelings of most Utah republicans. If they do, I am going to unrepublicanize myself.

I will say having both Bennett and Hatch was a bit disheartening because they both are good ole boy politicians. However, to get them out do we have to go and elect someone who hangs out with Tom Cruize.

[Jacob]

Greater participation will not fix the problem with the caucus system. That's the point. It is not malfunctioning due to lazy voters as you imply. It is a flawed process. The Count My Vote initiative intends to change the process. Huge difference.

Except greater participation is exactly what you are calling for. Unless I just don't understand it, the Count My Vote system tries to fix the problem simply by getting greater participation, largely of low information voters in a typical primary. The primary system and the general election system are malfunctioning due to lazy voters. Always have and always will. I don't see away around that. But I also don't see a good case for including even more lazy voters in the initial process.

[byu71]

Except greater participation is exactly what you are calling for. Unless I just don't understand it, the Count My Vote system tries to fix the problem simply by getting greater participation, largely of low information voters in a typical primary. The primary system and the general election system are malfunctioning due to lazy voters. Always have and always will. I don't see away around that. But I also don't see a good case for including even more lazy voters in the initial process.

So myself, my kids, my siblings and a large number of my friends you are accusing of being low information voters because they don't go to the caucus. Shame on you. I know you don't mean it or I would call you a dumb ass.