The Fiscal Cliff

[calicoug]

Yes! Who cares about these stupid ratings on bonds? What S&P doesn't realize is we can print our own money.

So let's get rid of the debt ceiling and money with strings crap. It is what Americans want... oh, wait: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...debt-vote.html Don't people know it is un-American to disagree with President Obama?

The fact that we have a debt ceiling is exactly what puts (and put) our bond rating in danger. Having it in place doesn't somehow boost our bond rating.

[Uncle Ted]

The fact that we have a debt ceiling is exactly what puts (and put) our bond rating in danger. Having it in place doesn't somehow boost our bond rating.

And I was thinking it was the $2 trillion math error the spreadsheet monkeys made over at the S&P...

A Treasury Department spokesperson said in reaction to the news of the downgrade: "A judgment flawed by a $2 trillion error speaks for itself."


On Friday afternoon, Treasury officials discovered what they said was a $2 trillion error in S&P's math. S&P did not address the alleged flaw in its statements.

S&P first put the government on notice in April that a downgrade was possible unless Congress and the administration came up with a credible long-term deficit reduction plan and avoided a default on the country's debt.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-20088944.html

Thanks Cali for setting the facts straight.

[imanihonjin]

The fact that we have a debt ceiling is exactly what puts (and put) our bond rating in danger. Having it in place doesn't somehow boost our bond rating.

Sure it does. It gives creditors and assurance that American will not over leverage itself. I guess the fact that this limit is meaningless because Congress can increase it (and has increased it) on a whim probably negates most of the positive impact setting a debt limit would have though. It is not uncommon for a creditor to require a business not to exceed a certain debt equity ratio to limit the creditors risk of default. A real debt limit would act in much the same way to limit a creditors default risk.

[snowcat]

[imanihonjin]

Cali, I would love to hear your defense of Mr. Obama's comments and how Messrs Cruz, Lee, and Paul can be criticized for holding strong and fast to making demands they view as helping reduce our nations fiscal obligations as fringe when Obama claims that raising the debt was irresponsible and unpatriotic.

[calicoug]

Sure it does. It gives creditors and assurance that American will not over leverage itself. I guess the fact that this limit is meaningless because Congress can increase it (and has increased it) on a whim probably negates most of the positive impact setting a debt limit would have though. It is not uncommon for a creditor to require a business not to exceed a certain debt equity ratio to limit the creditors risk of default. A real debt limit would act in much the same way to limit a creditors default risk.

There is no such thing as a real debt limit if the borrower can always raise it. Comparing the government to a commercial borrower is asinine. I don't know what "assurance" you think the market gets from the debt ceiling. Quick- other than last year (which is the only time credit has been downgraded) how many times has the Congress refused to raise the debt ceiling? And how many times has it raised it? If you think markets are extending credit because it exists you don't understand this at all.

[calicoug]

Cali, I would love to hear your defense of Mr. Obama's comments and how Messrs Cruz, Lee, and Paul can be criticized for holding strong and fast to making demands they view as helping reduce our nations fiscal obligations as fringe when Obama claims that raising the debt was irresponsible and unpatriotic.

Then you're in luck...

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...088&viewfull=1

It isn't the comments that bother me. It's the "hold fast" part. And there isn't anything they are doing that will lower the deficit. The US will still owe the money on its books- it will just default on payment (ironically triggering default rates on obligations that will increase the deficit).

[Uncle Ted]

Cali, I would love to hear your defense of Mr. Obama's comments and how Messrs Cruz, Lee, and Paul can be criticized for holding strong and fast to making demands they view as helping reduce our nations fiscal obligations as fringe when Obama claims that raising the debt was irresponsible and unpatriotic.

That was all before we got the ObamaCard Gold...

"All you need to do is have enough HOPE and FAITH."

Tell them Cali.

[imanihonjin]

There is no such thing as a real debt limit if the borrower can always raise it. Comparing the government to a commercial borrower is asinine. I don't know what "assurance" you think the market gets from the debt ceiling. Quick- other than last year (which is the only time credit has been downgraded) how many times has the Congress refused to raise the debt ceiling? And how many times has it raised it? If you think markets are extending credit because it exists you don't understand this at all.

Go back and re-read what I wrote and perhaps you could actually respond to the what I stated rather than punching at shadows.

[imanihonjin]

Then you're in luck...

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...088&viewfull=1

It isn't the comments that bother me. It's the "hold fast" part. And there isn't anything they are doing that will lower the deficit. The US will still owe the money on its books- it will just default on payment (ironically triggering default rates on obligations that will increase the deficit).

So are you stating that Obamacare won't add anything to the deficit? Because you would be wrong.

[byu71]

There is no such thing as a real debt limit if the borrower can always raise it.

Well at least I now understand why you think we can do unlimited government programs. Why do you think Obama at one time talked about our national debt and raising the limit as being unpatriotic or something like that? Do you think he at one time didn't realize our borrowing power is unlimited.

[Moliere]

The fact that we have a debt ceiling is exactly what puts (and put) our bond rating in danger.

This is not true. The debt ceiling is a tool that was used in this regard, but the concern by credit agencies was the lack of a long term deficit reduction plan.

[Indy Coug]

Our country is toast. The only unknown is just how long before it blows up. Let's just take the uncertainty out of it.

[Moliere]

Our country is toast. The only unknown is just how long before it blows up. Let's just take the uncertainty out of it.

Yes, sometime in the next trillion years our country will be toast

[Moliere]

CNN has a countdown clock showing the time left until the gov't shutdown

Honestly, does anyone really care? The shutdown will be over in a week or two and everyone will be back to work. The workers will be paid for the time they missed, just like pretty much every other time the gov't shutdown, and life will go on as normal. I'm not sure any of this is news....except for the cable news networks