The Fiscal Cliff

[Jacob]

This long article in the WSJ about a likely establishment challenge to Lee tends to make me think better, rather than worse of Mike Lee. Some highlights:

Spencer Zwick, a Utah native and national finance chairman for Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, was more direct, calling Lee a “show horse” who “just wants to be a spectacle.”

“Business leaders that I talk to, many of whom supported him, would never support his reelection and in fact will work against him, myself included,” Zwick said…

This is a big-time fundraiser. It' s "business leaders" and party establishment who want Lee out. Not surprising. Rather than being a "show horse" Lee keeps a fairly low profile compared to guys like Cruz, Rubio, McCain, Graham, Rand Paul. He is clearly not trying to be a spectacle or a show horse despite Mr. Zwick wanting to make him so. But why do "business leaders" (read special interests) not like Lee? Perhaps because he pays them no attention.

I can't get the whole article now, but read it last night. In it, some Utah REpub big wig and fundraiser says:

It doesn't matter how many times I've met him, I still don't think he even knows who I am

Ha! I'm not sure there could be a higher compliment paid to a senator than that he doesn't even acknowledge party fundraisers.

And Mr. "No Labels" John Huntsman has no problems with name-calling

“You don’t have ideological wack-jobs,” [former Utah Gov. Jon] Huntsman said.

I don't believe you'll find many instance of Mr. Lee making ad hominem attacks against his fellow republicans, or democrats. I'd say in that regard he is more distinguished than Mr. McCain or Mr. Huntsman, or most senators.

Does Lee vote as he does because he wants ro raise money and be re-elected as these fools claim? Clearly not, in my view.

And what about the tax proposal Lee came out with a few weeks ago? Best plan I've seen in a long time. http://www.lee.senate.gov/public/ind...3-d495c97f698e
Now, Lee is not much of a public speaker, IMO. He is fairly boring and lacks charisma. No wonder he doesn't try to be a "show horse"! But he is clearly intelligent and clearly standing for something. Something that most of us actually agree with.

Harry Reid said something funny a few weeks ago. That Cruz likes to talk down to people and that he thinks he's smarter than his audience, but now he is in the senate, and everybody there is equally as smart. Well, if that don't make you lol...

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ha! I'm not sure there could be a higher compliment paid to a senator than that he doesn't even acknowledge party fundraisers.

I can think of a few thousand higher compliments.

You like extremists. We get it.

[il Padrino Ute]

I can think of a few thousand higher compliments.

You like extremists. We get it.

Perhaps this country could use more right wing extremists. Look where we are today after decades of moderates and the last 5 years of left wing extremists running the country.

[Jacob]

I can think of a few thousand higher compliments.

You like extremists. We get it.

Its obvious to me that you don't get it. So I'll stop trying to explain and responding to your one-liners..

[Jeff Lebowski]

Perhaps this country could use more right wing extremists. Look where we are today after decades of moderates and the last 5 years of left wing extremists running the country.

Ha. We have gotten a good taste of what extremism does for government.

Speaking of Bob Bennett, here is an excellent essay he wrote recently on necessity for compromise in government:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ird-party.html

Many who have been at the center of the fiscal negotiations that were stalled until the very last moment said, in effect, "I am a man of principle, and one of my principles is rigidity." Rigidity can be comforting. It provides one with a sense of certainty, which is appealing. My father said, "Some people would rather be certain than right." Often, however, as we have seen over the past months, it prevents the kind of deal-making that gets things done.

Those who say "I will never under any circumstances vote for a tax increase" are just as stupid and every bit as guilty of driving up the deficit as those who claim "I will never under any circumstances vote for cut in social programs for the poor". God save us from extremists.

[Jacob]

Those who say "I will never under any circumstances vote for a tax increase" are just as stupid and every bit as guilty of driving up the deficit as those who claim "I will never under any circumstances vote for cut in social programs for the poor". God save us from extremists.

Lol. Oops, sorry, I said I was done.


Not to Lebowski:

Sorry for the badf link on that Lee article, here's the link in the WaPo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...e6c_story.html

And here's that quote I was trying ti recall from memory:

But Lee has not cultivated the party’s business and establishment wings. Consider John Price, a businessman who once sat on the Republican National Committee and later served in Africa as an ambassador under Bush.

“With Mike Lee, no matter how many times I see him, he still doesn’t know who I am,” Price said. “He treats me like I don’t exist.”

Poor guy. Gets treated like a regular guy. The shame.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lol. Oops, sorry, I said I was done.


Not to Lebowski:

Sorry for the badf link on that Lee article, here's the link in the WaPo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...e6c_story.html

And here's that quote I was trying ti recall from memory:


Poor guy. Gets treated like a regular guy. The shame.

Jacob sees the lack of people skills as a huge plus.

[Uncle Ted]

You overstated it by 8. Twice as good is plenty. Bennett like Hatch was a big part of the republicans acting like democrats and spending their asses off. Too bad we don't have a Governor Casic (Ohio) or the guy from Wisconsin, Walker I think, type running for the Senate in Utah.

And VC's comment about Bennett being 101 times better proves my point Bennett was not someone we needed either.

Don't get me started... Hatch is an absolute idiot. If Lee is 101 times worst than Bennet then Hatch is 1001 times worse than Bennett.

One example, he wanted to destroy your computer for downloading music:

Illegally download copyright music from the Internet once, or even twice, and you get a warning. Do it a third time, and your computer gets destroyed.


That's the suggestion made by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee at a Tuesday hearing on copyright abuse, reflecting a growing frustration in Congress over failure of the technology and entertainment industries to protect copyrights in a digital age.


The surprise statement by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, that he favors developing technology to remotely destroy computers used for illegal downloads represents a dramatic escalation in the increasingly contentious rhetoric over pirated music.


During a discussion of methods to frustrate computer users who illegally exchange music and movie files over the Internet, Hatch asked technology executives about ways to damage computers involved in such file trading. Legal experts have said any such attack would violate federal anti-hacking laws.


"No one is interested in destroying anyone's computer," replied Randy Saaf of MediaDefender Inc., a secretive Los Angeles company that builds technology to deliberately download pirated material very slowly so other users can't.


"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."

http://www.macobserver.com/columns/t...20030618.shtml

Orrin Hatch makes Harry Reid look like Albert Einstein.

[Shaka]

Don't get me started... Hatch is an absolute idiot. If Lee is 101 times worst than Bennet then Hatch is 1001 times worse than Bennett.

One example, he wanted to destroy your computer for downloading music:


http://www.macobserver.com/columns/t...20030618.shtml

Orrin Hatch makes Harry Reid look like Albert Einstein.

A lot of musicians, especially those of us who are with ASCAP or BMI, tend to agree more with Hatch and less with you.

I'm not advocating blowing up someone's computer but the free downloading has dramatically altered the music industry. Hatch is a musician (I use that term loosely) so he definitely gets to have an opinion on the subject.

[Uncle Ted]

A lot of musicians, especially those of us who are with ASCAP or BMI, tend to agree more with Hatch and less with you.

I'm not advocating blowing up someone's computer but the free downloading has dramatically altered the music industry. Hatch is a musician (I use that term loosely) so he definitely gets to have an opinion on the subject.

First of all, the technology to damage computers really isn't there unless it is added by design. If such a mechanism was added then I am sure it would be exploded by more than just the music industry (e.g. Chinese virus writers or maybe our own government given what we now know about the NSA.). Second, there are laws for things like copyrights. Those that violate those laws should be punished. Many of the professional bootleggers have been punished. Finally, damaging one's computer even if they copied a song or two won't make them a fan of the musician and sell concert tickets. Besides the profession bootlegger will most likely disable the technology that would have damaged the computer. In short, a musician shouldn't piss off their fans especially in the day and age of social media.

On the other hand, the Dave Matthews Band, for example, encourages their fans to record and trade their live concerts (see their taping policy below)... The band cites college students trading these tapes and recordings as a key reason for their fame today.

TAPING
Dave Matthews Band allows audiotaping at almost every live performance. We feel that each show is unique and want to offer our fans the opportunity to recreate the live experience through the audio reproduction of our shows. At all taping authorized performances, tapers can tape from any ticketed seating location in the venue. Also,for many of these performances tapers are able to purchase tickets for a specially designated taper section, normally located immediately behind the soundboard. No soundboard or power feeds are provided.


Taping is limited to audio-only, using only microphones. Wireless receivers are strictly prohibited. We sincerely appreciate all of our fans, so we ask that you please be considerate of those around you by not obstructing anyone else’s view of the performance.


All recordings must be used for personal use or trading only. Selling or commercializing any recording is illegal and will jeopardize taping privileges for everyone. Please read our Bootleg Statement for more information.


In addition to helping fans recreate the live experience, we hope tape trading will foster greater interaction within the fan community. Any method of trading that does not involve personal fan interaction defeats the spirit of this goal of the taping policy and is not authorized. In particular, posting audio or video files on web sites for streaming to or downloading by the public, is not authorized.
[...]

http://davematthewsband.com/legal

Because many fans enjoy and benefit from this policy the Dave Matthews Band community has even come to the band's aid and turned in "for profit" bootleggers.

[Shaka]

First of all, the technology to damage computers really isn't there unless it is added by design. If such a mechanism was added then I am sure it would be exploded by more than just the music industry (e.g. Chinese virus writers or maybe our own government given what we now know about the NSA.). Second, there are laws for things like copyrights. Those that violate those laws should be punished. Many of the professional bootleggers have been punished. Finally, damaging one's computer even if they copied a song or two won't make them a fan of the musician and sell concert tickets. In short, a musician shouldn't piss off their fans especially in the day and age of social media.

On the other hand, the Dave Matthews Band, for example, encourages their fans to record and trade their live concerts (see their taping policy below)... The band cites college students trading these tapes and recordings as a key reason for their fame today.


http://davematthewsband.com/legal

Because many fans enjoy and benefit from this policy the Dave Matthews Band community has even come to the band's aid and turned in "for profit" bootleggers.

Ask Dave Matthews whether or not he thinks his studio recordings should be traded for free. There's a huge difference between trading bootlegs of performances and trading studio recordings.

[Uncle Ted]

Ask Dave Matthews whether or not he thinks his studio recordings should be traded for free. There's a huge difference between trading bootlegs of performances and trading studio recordings.

Like Hatch you still don't get it. Pissing off your fans won't make you popular. They will go somewhere else. Good fans know the different from right and wrong. They will also help turn in those are that damaging their favorite artist.

You should also read the DMB's bootleg statement...

BOOTLEG STATEMENT
A notice to our fans about Bootleg Recordings, Television and Radio Broadcasts:


We would like to thank those of you who have been helping us with the bootleg CD problem. For those of you who are unaware of what’s been going on we would like to let you know that the Dave Matthews Band has always encouraged the taping of our performances, but only for personal use, including trading, as outlined in the Taping Policy Statement. The proliferation of commercial resale of recordings of our concerts has become a concern to us. Commercial bootleg’s are not only excessively priced and of inferior quality, but primarily, they are an illegal use that threaten the taping privileges of everyone. Due to the efforts of a few unscrupulous tapers the privilege of recording live performances has been jeopardized. Those of you who have passed along information about commercialized recordings have been very instrumental in our fight against these bootleggers. An equally important violation of the integrity of the music is the unauthorized commercial exploitation of the band now occurring on television and radio broadcasts. Without our knowledge or permission, our songs have been used on soap operas, sports promotions, and even as the introduction to the Rush Limbaugh show. Once again we turn to you to assist us with putting a stop to this use of our music. If you see Dave Matthews Band music being used in what you feel may be an uncomfortable situation for the band, we ask you to notify us by e-mail or fax. Please provide the date, time, station, program name and song used. And don’t forget, the battle against bootleggers is an ongoing one. We still encourage you to email or fax us the name and locations of any retailers or distributors of bootleg CD’s along with the titles and quantities in stock. With your help we can stop the flood of illegal recordings and preserve the privilege of our fans to record our performances. We can be reached by e-mail at: webmaster@davematthewsband.com or by fax at Attn: DMB Warehouse (434) 951-9006. Thanks.

And the DMB community has done so. There was a huge FBI bust some years back that was a result of a DMB fan's tip.

[Shaka]

So you really didn't address my point. All you did was cite a bootleg policy. Are you saying that all recordings should be fair game because you really don't want to piss off the fans? Once again, huge difference between trading bootlegs and trading studio recordings.

Also plenty of, "good fans" engaged in trading studio recordings of music.

[Uncle Ted]

So you really didn't address my point. All you did was cite a bootleg policy. Are you saying that all recordings should be fair game because you really don't want to piss off the fans? Once again, huge difference between trading bootlegs and trading studio recordings.

Also plenty of, "good fans" engaged in trading studio recordings of music.

No, there are laws against bootlegging. And having the fans on your side is a good thing.

[Shaka]

No, there are laws against bootlegging. And having the fans on your side is a good thing.

Agreed.

Is it possible that OH was simply engaging in hyperbole in order to shed light on the illegal trading of music? Orrin may be a lot of things but dumb isn't one of them.