The Fiscal Cliff

[Jacob]

Everyone loves it when lawyers argue over which lawyer is smarter. :igiveup:

Hey. I only used to be a lawyer. I got too smart for that.

[Pheidippides]

Cruz has no business experience and little real world experience outside of clerking and politicking. He's the Obama of the right. An idealogue with little knowledge about how the economy works or how businesses are ran.

I don't care if he's incredibly book smart at law. Being book smart at law doesn't help when people are trying to solve real world problems.

And yes, I'm still sulking over Mitt's loss. Dude would have been dynamic and pragmatic as president.

Cruz is an effing moron. His opponent in the primary was arguably worse. I can't remember who the Democratic challenger was. Either way I am looking forward to my next opportunity to vote against him.

[SCcoug]

It was!

It was almost as dramatic as a typical police procedural (what?!? It was the guy introduced in minute 9, so unexpected. Good thing we got that last minute clue to trick him into confessing at the end). Plus I didn't even see him on a horse much less a white one.

I'm sure the future scriptural records will do a better job upping the drama.

[Goatnapper'96]

I disagree. He's not Obama's equivalent. Real world experience is probably over-rated. Cruz and Lee don't want to run a business or the economy. That's not their job and not the presidents job. They want to let businesses run themselves. Obama goes the opposite direction. No experience in business will make you a better governor. Success in big business would probably make governors more likely to think they can fix the economy's or business's problems. Not so. Get out of the way. It's ideology that's important.

I think many don't disagree with their ideological perspective. The criticism that they lack real world experience is a result of many of us believing that their actions this past month did more damage of enacting policy consistent with their/our ideology than it did good. I think they could have won a fight over government spending and instead they took attention away from the current real world failure of Obamacare over a fight that they just could not win. The issue is many of us would like to decrease government spending and I think they wasted an opportunity to rally Republicans and the majority of the American people towards a cause that is winnable.

[imanihonjin]

I think many don't disagree with their ideological perspective. The criticism that they lack real world experience is a result of many of us believing that their actions this past month did more damage of enacting policy consistent with their/our ideology than it did good. I think they could have won a fight over government spending and instead they took attention away from the current real world failure of Obamacare over a fight that they just could not win. The issue is many of us would like to decrease government spending and I think they wasted an opportunity to rally Republicans and the majority of the American people towards a cause that is winnable.

Yep, the message was the wrong message to send. This should have been a battle over spending and borrowing, yet the Republicans screwed the whole thing up making it simply about Obamacare. Republicans are so awful at messaging.

[Goatnapper'96]

I do believe the shutdown did result in continuing the sequester level spending and with the dates the Senate negotiated I think the law that will be in effect when it gets time to shut down the government again in January will be the even lower numbers of discretionary spending the sequester goes to for the next FY. That is a Republican victory and IMO gives the Republican's leverage when negotiating with Democrats. My prediction is nothing is done or agreed to and the spending levels will stay at the level mandated by the sequester. I do not see even if the Republicans agree to more revenue the Democrats agreeing to any more cut in government spending, perhaps some entitlement reform but I think that is a bridge too far.

[Jacob]

I think many don't disagree with their ideological perspective. The criticism that they lack real world experience is a result of many of us believing that their actions this past month did more damage of enacting policy consistent with their/our ideology than it did good. I think they could have won a fight over government spending and instead they took attention away from the current real world failure of Obamacare over a fight that they just could not win. The issue is many of us would like to decrease government spending and I think they wasted an opportunity to rally Republicans and the majority of the American people towards a cause that is winnable.

I don't disagree. But but their chosen political strategy has little to do with their real wold experience. May have more to do with their lack of political experience. But it's the more experienced politician who have gotten us into the mess that I'd like to get us out of. And if you think the republicans would have gotten much of any good deal to reduce spending with a little better strategy over the pst 2-3 weeks...well, I think we know better than that. IF what happened is truly Cruz' fault (Beohner could have got the deal we ended up with on day 1 if he wanted), AND the resulting bad press for republicans truly does long-term damage to the goal of reducing government/spending, THEN we can say that Cruz and Lee chose a terrible strategy. But, they aren't in leadership and didn't do everything over the past 2-3 weeks; and we don't know if their efforts have decreased our chances of getting better/less government.

If your idea of decreasing government spending is a very slight reduction in the increase in the size of government over the next year, then yes, they wasted an opportunity to work towards a "winnable cause." But I think they understand that such a winnable cause is hardly worth fighting for. 20% of federal spending goes to healthcare and that will go up more and more under Obamacare. It makes sense to fight over where the spending is. Healthcare spending, health care taxes, military spending, entitlement spending.

Cruz' focus on Obamacare made little sense to me at this point because there is probably nothing he can accomplish other than raise awareness. But it makes perfect sense in that this is where all the new spending is, this is the new tax, this is the worst policy. I hope republicans can come up with a better strategy and messaging going forward and that during the next debt limit fight in a few months, they can accomplish something worthwhile, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd take Obama's strategy on spending. We will not agree to a dime more of spending. Non-negotiable. Not undoing sequester, nothing. Let's reduce entitlement spending through entitlement reform, but we're not giving a dime back to any other program. Lets focus on how much we are spending and how a small % in spending cuts makes a huge difference. Lets focus on the Obamacare pricing and taxes. Keep it simple. Spend less. Don't make me pay more.

[SeattleUte]

Utah needs to elect someone who is moderate in their political views, was law review at BYU, has left the law practice and is now running a business, and is a progressive who prioritizes support for civil liberties including gay marriage. Let's draft 3D to run against Mike Lee.

[YOhio]

Utah needs to elect someone who is moderate in their political views, was law review at BYU, has left the law practice and is now running a business, and is a progressive who prioritizes support for civil liberties including gay marriage. Let's draft 3D to run against Mike Lee.

3D can gtfo. IIRC, he's a Democrat.

[byu71]

Utah needs to elect someone who is moderate in their political views, was law review at BYU, has left the law practice and is now running a business, and is a progressive who prioritizes support for civil liberties including gay marriage. Let's draft 3D to run against Mike Lee.

LOL@SU and DDD

[Uncle Ted]

Ted Cruz and Mike Lee, LOL. So there is John McCain and the more practical republicans? One thing the far right has right is that guys like McCain are as bad as the dems when it comes to the government spending us into more and more debt. Boehner, well I actually like the guy, but I seem to be the only one that likes him enough to listen to him.

How dare you talk about Grandpa McCain like that... He just likes to yell a lot.

abe_simpson.jpg

[Goatnapper'96]

Utah needs to elect someone who is moderate in their political views, was law review at BYU, has left the law practice and is now running a business, and is a progressive who prioritizes support for civil liberties including gay marriage. Let's draft 3D to run against Mike Lee.

Spencer Cox the new Lieutenant Governor!

On that note does one drop the Lieutenant before Governor when speaking to the Lt. Governor like one does a Lieutenant Col. in the military?

[Jacob]

Utah needs to elect someone who is moderate in their political views, was law review at BYU, has left the law practice and is now running a business, and is a progressive who prioritizes support for civil liberties including gay marriage. Let's draft 3D to run against Mike Lee.

Great Idea. Except for the part about Utah needing someone who is moderate in their political views. Oh, and anyone on law review should be automatically disqualified. Utah's representative should reflect the electorate's views. Ideologically, severely conservative.

[SeattleUte]

3D can gtfo. IIRC, he's a Democrat.

So was Scott Matheson

[Uncle Ted]

Great Idea. Except for the part about Utah needing someone who is moderate in their political views. Oh, and anyone on law review should be automatically disqualified. Utah's representative should reflect the electorate's views. Ideologically, severely conservative.

3D just has to claim that he is more of a tea partier (i.e. what the Utah voters think they need) than "Brother Lee". Of course, once he is elected he can do whatever the hell he wants. It worked for Obama.