The Fiscal Cliff

[The_Douger]

I guess I jsut see my kids really being affected by all this stuff.

I worry about it because I feel there's going to be less and less opportunities for them because the debt and budget stuff will be so tight, it's eventually going to be all our tax revenue for that.

[frank ryan]

I'm not entirely sure medical providers enjoy prolonging life of the very elderly or very ill.

It is a tough one, but I really think this is dangerous territory. There is an argument to made for someone in that situation's right to die. But forcing that by withholding care is troublesome. And they sound like those dreaded death panels Palin invented. I don't care what the medical provider enjoys but more about the person on the deathbed.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I think the germany model is a nice one.

I agree. I like the German system as well.

[frank ryan]

I agree. I like the German system as well.

Isn't that some sort of 8 percent of income tax plan with an option for private insurance?

[New Mexican Disaster]

Isn't that some sort of 8 percent of income tax plan with an option for private insurance?

Yes, something like that. People over a certain income threshold can opt out of the public insurance system and pay for private insurance.

[frank ryan]

I agree. I like the German system as well.

We need to do something, but people should also consider that some businesses flee here because they don't have to pay for insurance. That, at least was the case in Ireland awhile back when they led the world in producing software (per capita) before their economy got effed. If we want to use Greece as a marker of what we want to avoid then we should also look at what has helped Germany.

Of course there is one point where I think Wuap is with me, we foot the bill for 75% of NATO. That needs to change.

[The_Douger]

Ya, I just don't give one crap about helping out with stuff like NATO. We're not the world's ref.

[il Padrino Ute]

We need to do something, but people should also consider that some businesses flee here because they don't have to pay for insurance. That, at least was the case in Ireland awhile back when they led the world in producing software (per capita) before their economy got effed. If we want to use Greece as a marker of what we want to avoid then we should also look at what has helped Germany.

Of course there is one point where I think Wuap is with me, we foot the bill for 75% of NATO. That needs to change.

I don't know about wuap, but I'm with you here. Of course, I think NATO should pay us to do their dirty work, but I'm not sure if you agree with me about that.

[frank ryan]

I don't know about wuap, but I'm with you here. Of course, I think NATO should pay us to do their dirty work, but I'm not sure if you agree with me about that.

Yeah, that really bothers me. It isn't that we do most of NATO's dirty work, we do almost all of it. We've sent Patriot missiles to Turkey with accompanying troops. I don't suppose the Brits or French have that capability or are paying for any of it.

We need to visit all foreign and military aid as well. Not too mention our bloated underwriting of the U.N. Cuts had better be painful there as well if we got to take the hatchet to our safetynet and military.

[Uncle Ted]

I think the germany model is a nice one.

I agree. I like the German system as well.

I like the German system too. Do we now have an enough virtual signatures on the petition to get Obama consider replacing Obamacare with something like it yet?

[New Mexican Disaster]

I like the German system too. Do we now have an enough virtual signatures on the petition to get Obama consider replacing Obamacare with something like it yet?

I think he is too busy dealing with whether ya'll Texan a-holes are all going to petition to secede from the Union.

[Uncle Ted]

I think he is too busy dealing with whether ya'll Texan a-holes are all going to petition to secede from the Union.

Yes, when is the president of your country going to recognize the fact we are the Republic of Texas?

[Uncle Ted]

The President's initial offering came from Secretary Geithner today:

A.) 1.6 Trillion in more revenue (roughly $160 billion/yr)
B.) $400 billion in cuts to medicare and other entitlements (roughly $40 billion/yr)
C.) Delaying sequester cuts to defense for one year

That, my friends, is a balanced approach! Although I don't think even he really thought it was serious. For those of you keeping track our deficit has dropped from $1.5 trillion to closer to $1.3 trillion, as of the last final #s which was FY 2012 and the the 2013 has a projected deficit of only $900 billion, and this plan would move it down to $1.1 trillion- $700 billion/yr. But what is $400 billion amongst friends!

You missed the part about permanently ending the debt ceiling.

It is interesting to note that something like 70% of bonds in 2011 were bought by the Fed. It seems that the Fed wants to continue to monetize the debt, leading to inflation. Maybe at some point confidence in the government's debt will be lost and a bond sell-off will occur. This may cause a hyperinflationary event. If the Fed ever decides to increase interest rates, the debt service payments will swell and take up a good share (maybe even something like 50%) of the federal budget.

During the 2012 election the best plan out of the two parties was the Rmoney/Ryan plan but it still would add something like $500 billion to $600 billion per year to the deficit. It seems by the time either party recognizes that programs must be cut it will be too late. They have promised too much to too many and the money isn't there to cover it. We are currently spending about $3.3 trillion per year and only bringing in about $2.3 trillion. Geithner's proposal only brings the budget deficit down by $200 billion but still adds $800 billion to the deficit.

[il Padrino Ute]

I think the GOP should take the Obama approach and take a vacation until sometime after the new year. Then, when it's time to vote, just vote present.

Let it happen and make Obama and the Dems who support him own the crash. Obama isn't going to work with the Repubs because that's not what he does. Remember, he won. They lost. Elections have consequences.

[Goatnapper'96]

It is a tough one, but I really think this is dangerous territory. There is an argument to made for someone in that situation's right to die. But forcing that by withholding care is troublesome. And they sound like those dreaded death panels Palin invented. I don't care what the medical provider enjoys but more about the person on the deathbed.

I don't like Palin and there are not death panels in existence but the reality is that there are going to be death panels eventually. You know it and so do I. Someday this country is going to have to pay for what it consumes. When that day comes there is no way to avoid rationing of health care and death panels. This country cannot afford the health care it provides today. What Palin was saying is reality and easy enough to understand that she got it. We would eventually get there with or without ObamaCare.

There is no easy fix to this mess. Medical technology is very expensive and the reality is that at some point the decision will have to be made as to what the public can afford for those on public provided health care.