The Fiscal Cliff

[Uncle Ted]

Captain Morgan and friends get $76b in tax credits but nothing for Sandy victims?

The "fiscal cliff" legislation passed this week included $76 billion in special-interest tax credits for the likes of General Electric, Hollywood and even Captain Morgan. But these subsidies weren't the fruit of eleventh-hour lobbying conducted on the cliff's edge -- they were crafted back in August in a Senate committee, and they sat dormant until the White House reportedly insisted on them this week.

[...]

[Uncle Ted]

Crony Capitalist Blowout

In praising Congress's huge new tax increase, President Obama said Tuesday that "millionaires and billionaires" will finally "pay their fair share." That is, unless you are a Nascar track owner, a wind-energy company or the owners of StarKist Tuna, among many others who managed to get their taxes reduced in Congress's New Year celebration.

There's plenty to lament about the capital and income tax hikes, but the bill's seedier underside is the $40 billion or so in tax payoffs to every crony capitalist and special pleader with a lobbyist worth his million-dollar salary. Congress and the White House want everyone to ignore this corporate-welfare blowout, so allow us to shine a light on the merriment.

[...]

Hatch and Crapo... no surprise there:



I am guessing that Captain Morgan supplied all the Rum for Crapo's DUI.

[byu71]

Crony Capitalist Blowout



Hatch and Crapo... no surprise there:



I am guessing that Captain Morgan supplied all the Rum for Crapo's DUI.

The millionaires and billionaires horseshit again. Is it that it slides off the tongue easier than saying the $450,000 aires and billionaires? Maybe it is because the millionaire and billionaire class is hated far more than the $450,000aire class?

Besides the give aways through the tax code to special interest, there was a special interest I thought Obama was going to make sure would get taxed fairly. Those folks who make money and it is called "carried interest". Their rate just went up from 15%-20%. After all his bitching about how little Romney paid in taxes, I thought for sure Obama and the dems would take care of that.


If they did take care of that and I missed it, my apologies to you Obama supporters.

[edward777]

Middle class to pay more. And people thought Bill Clinton was a liar...Obama makes Clinton look like George Washington.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...scal-deal.html

[byu71]

Middle class to pay more. And people thought Bill Clinton was a liar...Obama makes Clinton look like George Washington.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...scal-deal.html

Darn I hate admitting I am too dumb too understand what these articles are saying, but why are the income taxes going up? The marginal rates are staying the same for those under $450K, aren't they? Are some tax credits going away? I didn't see where they defined why if marginal rates stay the same, their income tax is going up.

[Bo Diddley]

Darn I hate admitting I am too dumb too understand what these articles are saying, but why are the income taxes going up? The marginal rates are staying the same for those under $450K, aren't they? Are some tax credits going away? I didn't see where they defined why if marginal rates stay the same, their income tax is going up.

The article doesn't explain it. I'm certain they're referring to the payroll tax holiday not being renewed. Not very honest in saying that tax rates are going up.

[byu71]

The article doesn't explain it. I'm certain they're referring to the payroll tax holiday not being renewed. Not very honest in saying that tax rates are going up.

I noted in the article at one time they used "income tax" and another time they used "all taxes".

I guess since Warren Buffet is misleading in his pronouncements and he is the respected oracle of Omaha, it is Ok for everyone to be free with the facts to make their own point.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm still shocked at where the revenue agreement ended. It seems to me a coup for conservatives. I still suspect that there will be some discussion later to limit deductions to raise revenue.

I was quite pleased to see Congress do something--anything--in a bipartisan way. It will be interesting to watch the debate on how to cut spending.

It's also interesting (interestingly annoying) to me to hear from part of the Tea Party (I say part, because if there really a head?) Amy Kremer is "outraged" at the Fiscal Cliff deal, and says "there will be consequences". I think she was specifically targeting a GOP senator from Georgia. She sounds like a baby who didn't get everything her way. This obstructionist attitude is not what we need in Washington. Whatever the end result of all this will not be a perfect outcome for anyone, no doubt.

[snowcat]

I'm still shocked at where the revenue agreement ended. It seems to me a coup for conservatives. I still suspect that there will be some discussion later to limit deductions to raise revenue.

I was quite pleased to see Congress do something--anything--in a bipartisan way. It will be interesting to watch the debate on how to cut spending.

It's also interesting (interestingly annoying) to me to hear from part of the Tea Party (I say part, because if there really a head?) Amy Kremer is "outraged" at the Fiscal Cliff deal, and says "there will be consequences". I think she was specifically targeting a GOP senator from Georgia. She sounds like a baby who didn't get everything her way. This obstructionist attitude is not what we need in Washington. Whatever the end result of all this will not be a perfect outcome for anyone, no doubt.

The revenue discussions are not over. Democrats will be fighting for more revenue in the spending cut negotiations. Class warfare is alive and well.

[il Padrino Ute]

The revenue discussions are not over. Democrats will be fighting for more revenue in the spending cut negotiations. Class warfare is alive and well.

Yep. Progressives can never tax or spend enough.

[U-Ute]

Darn I hate admitting I am too dumb too understand what these articles are saying, but why are the income taxes going up? The marginal rates are staying the same for those under $450K, aren't they? Are some tax credits going away? I didn't see where they defined why if marginal rates stay the same, their income tax is going up.

It is a bit misleading since higher earners pay a smaller percentage on the payroll tax, which is the biggest change by far.

[byu71]

It is a bit misleading since higher earners pay a smaller percentage on the payroll tax, which is the biggest change by far.

IMHO, it is more than a "bit" misleading. It is out and out lying.

Income tax is not the same thing as payroll tax.

Once your income tax hits the IRS, your name has no association with it whatsover.

Your payroll tax is however matched, put into the SS system and loaned to the US government. Your name is attached and you have eventual claim on the money. Whether it will be there or not is another matter. However, the purpose is a safety net for retirement or forced savings for retirement and other stuff like disablility. Some call it an insurance. Maybe we should count our insurance premiums on health, car, home, etc. as a tax too. Then they can show as a percentage of income the middle class and poor really getting a screw job.

Again, to combine the two is either done out of complete ingorance or intended to mislead. People who are doing it out of ignorance should be banned from discussing financial matters.

[PaloAltoCougar]

IMHO, it is more than a "bit" misleading. It is out and out lying.

Income tax is not the same thing as payroll tax.

Once your income tax hits the IRS, your name has no association with it whatsover.

Your payroll tax is however matched, put into the SS system and loaned to the US government. Your name is attached and you have eventual claim on the money. Whether it will be there or not is another matter. However, the purpose is a safety net for retirement or forced savings for retirement and other stuff like disablility. Some call it an insurance. Maybe we should count our insurance premiums on health, car, home, etc. as a tax too. Then they can show as a percentage of income the middle class and poor really getting a screw job.

Again, to combine the two is either done out of complete ingorance or intended to mislead. People who are doing it out of ignorance should be banned from discussing financial matters.

As support for the foregoing, consider that while SS contributions stop at around $110K, Medicare contributions (which aren't tied to the individual and to which one doesn't have a specific claim) continue indefinitely beyond the SS cutoff; it's a real tax.

[byu71]

As support for the foregoing, consider that while SS contributions stop at around $110K, Medicare contributions (which aren't tied to the individual and to which one doesn't have a specific claim) continue indefinitely beyond the SS cutoff; it's a real tax.

Not sure exactly what you mean. As I have said over and over I get lost reading this crap. That is why I bagged my CPA license and moved to Real Estate in the 70's.

The way I read it, over $200,000 in income and you get a bump up to 2.35%, not counting the employers part, for medicare. Someone who earns a wage of $1,000,000 is going to pay into the system a hell of a lot more than the guy who earns $50,000. Then you will probably eventually be means testing the rich guy. If I am reading this right, I don't think the lower income guy should bitch too much, unless the richer guys medicare pays for a world class surgeon and the lower income guys medicare pays from a newly arrived witch Dr. from Argentina.

The medicare tax is put in a general fund and then the medicare payments are taken out of the general fund, is that what you are saying? Medicare does not loan to the treasury like the SS system does, at least for now?

[Joe Public]

Your payroll tax is however matched, put into the SS system and loaned paid to the US government. Your name is attached You are credited with making the payment and you have eventual claim on the money a future payment from the government if Congress still grants it at that time.

That's how I see it, but I think you and I have respectfully exchanged our differing viewpoints about this somewhere in another thread.