The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[PaloAltoCougar]

LOL. Yes, everything as it was originally written in the Constitution was inspired by God. Good point.

Esp. the "black slaves count for 3/5ths of a white person" provision.

[byu71]

Esp. the "black slaves count for 3/5ths of a white person" provision.

I knows sarcasm goes over Applejacks head, but not yours??

[Jeff Lebowski]

No question. Are we debating the feasibility of this change, or the merits?

You are fighting a losing battle on both fronts.

[Applejack]

If Florida or Ohio had voted for Clinton, Trump still would have won. I wonder if any Democrat since JFK could have won the Presidency without California?

If he'd lost both he would have lost (right? someone check my math).

This isn't about the current election (although I abhor your boy Trump). I've been on the record against the EC on this august website for many moons.

[creekster]

How is this balance struck? The EC doesn't help Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, DC, Vermont, Alaska, HAwaii, or any of the flyover states. It basically boils the election down to "who do people in Florida and Ohio like?" That doesn't seem like Federalism.

Will you stop with the "only Ohio and Florida matter" stuff? That might be true in any given election or over any period of time but it is a complete red herring on the issue of distribution of power and the efficacy of the EC. The relative importance of Ohio and Florida is an artifact of social and political trends that may or may not stay the same over time.

[Bo Diddley]

Will you stop with the "only Ohio and Florida matter" stuff? That might be true in any given election or over any period of time but it is a complete red herring on the issue of distribution of power and the efficacy of the EC. The relative importance of Ohio and Florida is an artifact of social and political trends that may or may not stay the same over time.

Exactly. The battleground states change over time. At one point, Utah looked like it was up for grabs this cycle.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

France and Japan are offended. The countries you list are parliamentary republics. The US is not.

And they don't have a simple popular vote, which is what you're creaming your pants for. In fact, their systems require more compromise while you want California and the eastern seaboard to dictate to the entire country. Due to their sizes, places like Wyoming and the Dakotas necessarily have to compromise, they simply don't have enough people in the legislature to dictate anything. But you want far left California, who has over 50 congressmen, to not have to compromise at all.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Exactly. The battleground states change over time. At one point, Utah looked like it was up for grabs this cycle.

Oh no. You didn't.

[byu71]

If he'd lost both he would have lost (right? someone check my math).

This isn't about the current election (although I abhor your boy Trump). I've been on the record against the EC on this august website for many moons.

My boy didn't make it. I will admit I prefer "my boy" Trump over your gal Hillary.

[PaloAltoCougar]

This is a funny debate. There is no way in hell that part of the constitution gets changed.

It's funny, but also interesting although, of course, the EC will always be with us. And ultimately, I'd no more support that change than I would propose that senators be allocated on the basis of population like the House. I think the tension between protecting minorities vs. respecting the will of the people is interesting.

[Bo Diddley]

Oh no. You didn't.

That's my bad for listening to CNN and their "polls".

I suppose I need to come to terms that my vote really doesn't count in Utah. I can at least console myself with the fact that Utah's electoral votes ultimately generally serve my interests.

[Goatnapper'96]

How is this balance struck? The EC doesn't help Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, DC, Vermont, Alaska, HAwaii, or any of the flyover states. It basically boils the election down to "who do people in Florida and Ohio like?" That doesn't seem like Federalism.

Today it is Ohio and Florida but who is the decision maker is fluid although it is getting less and less fluid due to the polarizing impact of our diverging ideologies. The balance is in the system that limits the influence on the country, via electing the President, of states that have overwhelming unanimity of opinion. Pretty basic concept. If everyone in New York and California think taking away guns is a good idea it can be stopped by majorities in Iowa, Wyoming, Utah + various other flyover states. This ensures that the folks in those flyover states are not pushed around by the populous states.

It is Federalism because Federalism, in our form, seeks to share power between states and the Federal government. The EC is one method of groups of states standing against a tyranny of the majority from one or two states. This is how our country was formed- it was a compromise that provided for institutions, namely the Senate and the EC, that provided rural/smaller states disproportionate control. I think it is a better idea than pure democracy because with pure democracy there is no Country. Pure democracy is reflected in the House and look how good that is working out for you Liberals! Be careful what you wish for!

[YOhio]

Now that Army beat navy Goatnapper'96 seems to have his mojo back. Totally agree with him that JL, Applejack and PAC are liberal pussies. Also maybe you guys should take up your EC issues with Heavenly Father since he inspired the Constitution.

[imanihonjin]

Today it is Ohio and Florida but who is the decision maker is fluid although it is getting less and less fluid due to the polarizing impact of our diverging ideologies. The balance is in the system that limits the influence on the country, via electing the President, of states that have overwhelming unanimity of opinion. Pretty basic concept. If everyone in New York and California think taking away guns is a good idea it can be stopped by majorities in Iowa, Wyoming, Utah + various other flyover states. This ensures that the folks in those flyover states are not pushed around by the populous states.

The premise that the EC is an anachronism is laughable. The creation of our Union was made possible due to the very fact that the smaller states would have some protection against the larger states pushing them around. The Union would never have happened without the guarantees provided by many constitutional provisions like the EC. Those same concerns about larger populace states dictating terms to smaller populace states haven't gone away and therefore the idea that the EC is an anachronism is just flat out false.

You can't change the terms (particularly vitally essential terms) of the agreement because you no longer like them and calling the un-liked terms an anachronism doesn't make them so.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Now that Army beat navy Goatnapper'96 seems to have his mojo back. Totally agree with him that JL, Applejack and PAC are liberal pussies. Also maybe you guys should take up your EC issues with Heavenly Father since he inspired the Constitution.

I am totally in agreement with goatnapper on this issue, you big dumb-dumb.