The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[SeattleUte]

I am still scratching my head wondering how you got the notion that I am for protectionism.

BlueK said that Trump supporters were "angry" because NAFTA had cost them jobs, and you said "bingo". Was I supposed to detect some subtext?

[Pelado]

I think the NY Times' Mr. Poniewozik is having too much fun covering the Trump grotesqueness. Here is another very entertaining piece from him.

http://nyti.ms/1Xd3gUm

About Trump's infomercial/press conference:

The word made flesh, water and wine — from a candidate who once referred to the New Testament book as “Two Corinthians.” It was like the wedding at Cana meets the miracle of loaves and fishes, had they been catered by Ruth’s Chris.

[Jeff Lebowski]

BlueK said that Trump supporters were "angry" because NAFTA had cost them jobs, and you said "bingo". Was I supposed to detect some subtext?

Not subtext, context. Yes, that is exactly what the Trump supporters think. The context of the post was the mindset of Trump supporters. Hell, I don't think they are right. I think they are nuts.

Here is the entire post:

Trump's support is an amalgamation of several "angry" groups. You do have the blue collar workers who have seen their jobs lost due to free trade agreements, but they are just a fraction of his support. You have the xenophobes, anti-intellectuals, authoritarians, and the people who just like to see things burn. In my opinion, Trump's rise to power is the result of the anti-intellectualism that has run rampant in the GOP for a while. As a result, the base is completely uneducated to the underlying philosophy and susceptible to arguments based solely on emotion.

Because I agree with that summary, you think I am a Bernie Sanders supporter? Good grief.

[SeattleUte]

About Trump's infomercial/press conference:

Yes. Hilarious. Brilliant.

[SeattleUte]

Not subtext, context. Yes, that is exactly what the Trump supporters think. The context of the post was the mindset of Trump supporters. Hell, I don't think they are right. I think they are nuts.

Here is the entire post:



Because I agree with that summary, you think I am a Bernie Sanders supporter? Good grief.

He (she?) said: "You do have the blue collar workers who have seen their jobs lost due to free trade agreements, but they are just a fraction of his support." Apparently USUC believes they have witnessed this happen--connoting that it actually happened. And you said bingo.

[myboynoah]

The jobs have been lost not because of NAFTA but because corporations--whether or not U.S.-incorporated or U.S.-based--have found that they get more value from overseas labor than U.S. labor--either because they are harder working, better, or cheaper. And these are not sweatshops that our corporations operate--there is plenty of light shed by the press and philanthropists to expose abuses. On the contrary, this is work valued by overseas labor just as there are Americans who desire this work.

Who is to decide what this labor is worth to corporations? Donald Trump? Bernie Sanders? Congress? Or the market? And do we want Apple to be able to compete with Samsung as to price as well as quality? Do we want American consumers to be able to choose between their products?

Much has been written about the fact that there is plenty of work in America, but more that takes brains than brawn than in prior generations. The answer is to make more education and training available to children and grandchildren of the rust belt work force--they are as capable of programming as their ancestors were of working the assembly line.

All Americans should be required to take a basic economics course with a special emphasis on free trade and the concept of comparative advantage. In the end, economics and commerce are forces that win out. It's like water finding the path of least resistance. Any jobs that might have been lost by NAFTA were going to be lost eventually anyway.

It reminds of me working in Japan in the late 90s. Japanese localities were concerned about large retailers coming in and forcing mom and pop shops out of business, so they established fairly strict laws and procedures for opening large retail. The USG got into this game because ToysRUs wanted to get into the market (and did eventually with great success). I spent a lot of time in the hinterland discussing the effects of large retail on small and medium shops with local officials. All complained about the negative effects. All also confessed that they shopped at the large retailers.

[Jeff Lebowski]

He (she?) said: "You do have the blue collar workers who have seen their jobs lost due to free trade agreements, but they are just a fraction of his support." Apparently USUC believes they have witnessed this happen--connoting that it actually happened. And you said bingo.

Ok, forget it. Now you are just being deliberately obtuse.

[Uncle Ted]

Talking to two good friends. One very liberal and one conservative. Neither said they would vote for bernie, hillary, trump or cruz. Can't believe friends and I are so different than the rest of the voters.

The latest WashPost/ABC news poll has some interesting data:

It seems that most Dems would be satisfied with Clinton or Sanders. However a lot of Pubs would be dissatisfied with Trump.




Also, it is not a done deal for Clinton...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...mepage%2Fstory

I wonder if the Dems will force Clinton to make Bernie her running mate.

[USUC]

He (she?) said: "You do have the blue collar workers who have seen their jobs lost due to free trade agreements, but they are just a fraction of his support." Apparently USUC believes they have witnessed this happen--connoting that it actually happened. And you said bingo.

She? Wtf?

As an example, you don't think cheap steel from China has hurt the US steel industry and has resulted in a loss of jobs? Of course, cheap goods from China have benefited EVERYBODY in this country, but there absolutely have been adjustments to the market (by the invisible hand) in this country. JL is right, you are just being obtuse.

Btw, I qualified that statement in a follow up post stating I am pro free trade. I think the country should get rid of every tariff.

[Uncle Ted]

She? Wtf?

As an example, you don't think cheap steel from China has hurt the US steel industry and has resulted in a loss of jobs? Of course, cheap goods from China have benefited EVERYBODY in this country, but there absolutely have been adjustments to the market (by the invisible hand) in this country. JL is right, you are just being obtuse.

Btw, I qualified that statement in a follow up post stating I am pro free trade. I think the country should get rid of every tariff.

Maybe what we need is another war in the middle east to drive up oil prices. Then the shipping costs would go up.




Of course, Iran may get the ball rolling without any help from W.

[SeattleUte]

She? Wtf?

As an example, you don't think cheap steel from China has hurt the US steel industry and has resulted in a loss of jobs? Of course, cheap goods from China have benefited EVERYBODY in this country, but there absolutely have been adjustments to the market (by the invisible hand) in this country. JL is right, you are just being obtuse.

Btw, I qualified that statement in a follow up post stating I am pro free trade. I think the country should get rid of every tariff.

No, I don't think it has. See my response to Venkman.

See, JL, he does believe that crap. You need to be careful with your bingos.

[SeattleUte]

All Americans should be required to take a basic economics course with a special emphasis on free trade and the concept of comparative advantage. In the end, economics and commerce are forces that win out. It's like water finding the path of least resistance. Any jobs that might have been lost by NAFTA were going to be lost eventually anyway.

It reminds of me working in Japan in the late 90s. Japanese localities were concerned about large retailers coming in and forcing mom and pop shops out of business, so they established fairly strict laws and procedures for opening large retail. The USG got into this game because ToysRUs wanted to get into the market (and did eventually with great success). I spent a lot of time in the hinterland discussing the effects of large retail on small and medium shops with local officials. All complained about the negative effects. All also confessed that they shopped at the large retailers.

Trump's saving grace is that he won't be able to accomplish any of the ugly things he says he'll do. He can't build the wall. There are a zillion natural impediments. He's not going to make Apple build all of its devices here and the American public pay double for them.

But BS has that stench of brain dead leftist economics that left hundreds of millions of dead and homeless in the last century.

We think we've got problems now! The world has never been safer, cleaner, more liberated or educated, and people have never had so much to eat as today--all because capitalism is the prevailing ethos or aspiration. Bring back the old dogmas that we thought were dead and the 20th century's horrors will certainly rise from the grave and follow.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I'm wondering about the granting of immunity to Hillary's IT guy. The former US Attorney for DC seems to think that it means they're getting a grand jury ready for Hillary.

Normally, I would expect someone who did things that Hillary did to plead things down like Petraeus. But Hillary can't back down because of the campaign.

The former US Attorney also thinks the FBI has recovered the deleted emails. If something indicates that Hillary is compromised (e.g.a quid pro quo arrangement where's Hillary uses SOS office to give favor to someone in a rogue state, like Russia) then I don't think the Justice Department can sit on it. Also, I would imagine that Obama couldn't care less what happens to the Democratic nomination if Donald Trump gets the GOP nomination. The Democrats could roll out Dukakis or Mondale and win going away.

[Omaha 680]

Trump's saving grace is that he won't be able to accomplish any of the ugly things he says he'll do. He can't build the wall. There are a zillion natural impediments. He's not going to make Apple build all of its devices here and the American public pay double for them.

But BS has that stench of brain dead leftist economics that left hundreds of millions of dead and homeless in the last century.

We think we've got problems now! The world has never been safer, cleaner, more liberated or educated, and people have never had so much to eat as today--all because capitalism is the prevailing ethos or aspiration. Bring back the old dogmas that we thought were dead and the 20th centuries horrors will certainly rise from the grave and follow.

I agree with you generally here, but trotting out communist fears from the 20th century is not effective. Opponents of BS style socialism need to be hyper focused on the math realities confronting his proposals and educate the public on the demographic and fiscal catastrophes threatening Europe's standard of living and ours if we don't make corrections. Of course, Paul Ryan has tried to go this route and hasn't gained many allies in either party.

[byu71]

We think we've got problems now! The world has never been safer, cleaner, more liberated or educated, and people have never had so much to eat as today--all because capitalism is the prevailing ethos or aspiration. Bring back the old dogmas that we thought were dead and the 20th centuries horrors will certainly rise from the grave and follow.

Well said! Bernie, Trump and Hillary if allowed freedom to act as they choose would bring on a serious recession. Keep hammering on the capitalists, limit free trade, free education, hammer the wall street speculators, hammer wall street, break up the banks. They are all pandering to the voting class who just doesn't understand how economics work.

Really, how are the government controlled socialist countries doing right now?

Bernie made such an assinine statement last night and the fact no one called him on it just shows how little Hillary and the press know about economics. He said vultures were buying Puerto Rico bonds at 30 cents on the dollar. Bernie, what if no one bought those bonds. Bernie are you telling us those bonds are guaranteed to go up in value and not default? So Bernie knows at 30 cents on the dollar they will make money. Who does Bernie think has gotten hammered with the bonds being at 30 cents. Not Puerto Rico, it is those that took a chance on Puerto Rico and got hammered.

Also do you know how many of those nasty Billionaires are influencing elections? How many billionaires are there. I do know one of them that is trying to influence elections, George Soros, the socialist backer of democrats. To be fair there are the Koch brothers on the other side. Rotten capitalists. I wonder how many jobs the Koch brothers have provided people vs George?