The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Northwestcoug]

i'm trying to think of anyone here who is a Trump apologist.

For some reason this reminded me of a dinner meeting I had a few weeks ago. I'm on a national committee that writes CME cases for pathologists. My presence there is due solely to my fellowship mentor recommending me and the committee president looking for more 'community pathologists' to write up cases; I am not a leader in any sense of the word. However, I work with a few experts in the field. One of them is a world-renown gynecologic pathologist. We were finishing up our meeting with a nice dinner and we sat with her. This was days after the election. She grew up in New Jersey and did residency/fellowship in Boston, and has not left there since. During that meeting there was almost universal disdain for Trump. If there were any supporters they certainly did not vocalize it.

At any rate, this pathologist was a proud Sanders supporter during the democrat campaign, and although she was disappointed in Clinton she supported her. Soon after everyone got done with their 'I cannot believe a Trump presidency is happening' sentiments during dinner, she shared her experience in self-reflection. She mentioned her shock at how ignorant she was about half the country. She couldn't believe how sheltered her life was that she didn't understand how half of Americans could vote for someone that absolutely none of her family or acquaintances were supporting. She still couldn't believe that he won, but the election at least allowed her some introspection about disparate lives in America. She wanted to understand what she didn't know about America.

I have stated numerous times my disdain for Trump. I still stand by my assertion that he is hands down the worst presidential candidate in modern history, and if I knew history better I would probably think he is the worst ever. But the vast majority of people who voted for him are not the worst people in modern history. A good proportion of them are not even Trump apologists. But they made a judgement call based on their individual lives. For me, the fact that half of America chose him as their leader is sobering and a little frightening, but I assume they took their choice seriously. It would be good for the rest of us to fully understand why they did that.

[Topper]

Mitt tried to warn us. People just laughed.

I remember this and have believed it to a point. OTOH, I have a liberally minded Jewish Ukrainian friend who believes we shouldn't make Putin an enemy but engage in more Realpolitik with him. Instead of demonizing him, use him to combat radical Islam, stand firm on the Baltic states, but don't box him in.

[Topper]

For some reason this reminded me of a dinner meeting I had a few weeks ago. I'm on a national committee that writes CME cases for pathologists. My presence there is due solely to my fellowship mentor recommending me and the committee president looking for more 'community pathologists' to write up cases; I am not a leader in any sense of the word. However, I work with a few experts in the field. One of them is a world-renown gynecologic pathologist. We were finishing up our meeting with a nice dinner and we sat with her. This was days after the election. She grew up in New Jersey and did residency/fellowship in Boston, and has not left there since. During that meeting there was almost universal disdain for Trump. If there were any supporters they certainly did not vocalize it.

At any rate, this pathologist was a proud Sanders supporter during the democrat campaign, and although she was disappointed in Clinton she supported her. Soon after everyone got done with their 'I cannot believe a Trump presidency is happening' sentiments during dinner, she shared her experience in self-reflection. She mentioned her shock at how ignorant she was about half the country. She couldn't believe how sheltered her life was that she didn't understand how half of Americans could vote for someone that absolutely none of her family or acquaintances were supporting. She still couldn't believe that he won, but the election at least allowed her some introspection about disparate lives in America. She wanted to understand what she didn't know about America.

I have stated numerous times my disdain for Trump. I still stand by my assertion that he is hands down the worst presidential candidate in modern history, and if I knew history better I would probably think he is the worst ever. But the vast majority of people who voted for him are not the worst people in modern history. A good proportion of them are not even Trump apologists. But they made a judgement call based on their individual lives. For me, the fact that half of America chose him as their leader is sobering and a little frightening, but I assume they took their choice seriously. It would be good for the rest of us to fully understand why they did that.

Much of my better half's family resides in NYC or in the area. A sobering fact is reflective in the fact that Clinton defeated Trump in the five counties that constitute NYC by 1.5 Million voters. Many eastern city-dwellers do not know people who voted for Trump. But I also have family members from the Midwest.

In many of these regions, there is an economic urgency that the coasts don't feel or realize. These voters are not evil, racist or mal-intended, but rather they are desperate. Many of them don't believe Trump necessarily, but in their minds, he stated he would try to improve their lot. The Dems and Clinton didn't even recognize that anything was wrong. Trump represented a faint hope that something might change. Clinton represented more of the same ole, same ole.

[creekster]

I have stated numerous times my disdain for Trump. I still stand by my assertion that he is hands down the worst presidential candidate in modern history, and if I knew history better I would probably think he is the worst ever. But the vast majority of people who voted for him are not the worst people in modern history. A good proportion of them are not even Trump apologists. But they made a judgement call based on their individual lives. For me, the fact that half of America chose him as their leader is sobering and a little frightening, but I assume they took their choice seriously. It would be good for the rest of us to fully understand why they did that.

I agree with you except I think I understand why people voted for him. I have talked to a lot fo them who work for companies I represent in the midwest. They are good, honest, hard-working people who don't like Trump but who were disgusted by the arrogance and corruption they saw in Clinton and they wanted something--anything--different. They even felt desperate for something different and thus even if Trump was a fraud, which they realize, they think he is just a more honest fraud than the other politicians (meaning he shows it whereas they hide it, and this is supported by the wikileaks disclosures) and at least he said he supported their general ideas on various subjects. So they were willing to roll the dice.

People like your associate should be sobered. The on-going vilification of half the electorate is silly and ultimately will do nothing more than keep the country polarized and make it ever more difficult to govern effectively.

[Topper]

I agree with you except I think I understand why people voted for him. I have talked to a lot fo them who work for companies I represent in the midwest. They are good, honest, hard-working people who don't like Trump but who were disgusted by the arrogance and corruption they saw in Clinton and they wanted something--anything--different. They even felt desperate for something different and thus even if Trump was a fraud, which they realize, they think he is just a more honest fraud than the other politicians (meaning he shows it whereas they hide it, and this is supported by the wikileaks disclosures) and at least he said he supported their general ideas on various subjects. So they were willing to roll the dice.

People like your associate should be sobered. The on-going vilification of half the electorate is silly and ultimately will do nothing more than keep the country polarized and make it ever more difficult to govern effectively.

The upside is it will continue to make it easier to defeat Democratic candidates. Vilify voters as stupid racist hicks. Keep doing that Democratic pundits and politicians. That is a recipe for success---- GOP success that is.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with you except I think I understand why people voted for him. I have talked to a lot fo them who work for companies I represent in the midwest. They are good, honest, hard-working people who don't like Trump but who were disgusted by the arrogance and corruption they saw in Clinton and they wanted something--anything--different. They even felt desperate for something different and thus even if Trump was a fraud, which they realize, they think he is just a more honest fraud than the other politicians (meaning he shows it whereas they hide it, and this is supported by the wikileaks disclosures) and at least he said he supported their general ideas on various subjects. So they were willing to roll the dice.

People like your associate should be sobered. The on-going vilification of half the electorate is silly and ultimately will do nothing more than keep the country polarized and make it ever more difficult to govern effectively.

Your explanation seems to make sense, until to you stop to realize that we had lots of other choices. The reason we faced the tragic choice of Trump vs. Clinton is because we selected Trump in the primaries.

[creekster]

Your explanation seems to make sense, until to you stop to realize that we had lots of other choices. The reason we faced the tragic choice of Trump vs. Clinton is because we selected Trump in the primaries.

"We" didnt select him. Some portion of the republicans selected him. I still think that happened both becasue people thought he was entertaining (IOW didnt take it seriously) and becasue he was different, as I said above.

[Topper]

Your explanation seems to make sense, until to you stop to realize that we had lots of other choices. The reason we faced the tragic choice of Trump vs. Clinton is because we selected Trump in the primaries.

But independents crossed-over, Trump got free press and was not vetted early, and all of the other establishment candidates looked and sounded like each other, to the Reagan Democrats that elected Trump. Trump had a plurality until there were no other challengers.

[Northwestcoug]

Much of my better half's family resides in NYC or in the area. A sobering fact is reflective in the fact that Clinton defeated Trump in the five counties that constitute NYC by 1.5 Million voters. Many eastern city-dwellers do not know people who voted for Trump. But I also have family members from the Midwest.

In many of these regions, there is an economic urgency that the coasts don't feel or realize. These voters are not evil, racist or mal-intended, but rather they are desperate. Many of them don't believe Trump necessarily, but in their minds, he stated he would try to improve their lot. The Dems and Clinton didn't even recognize that anything was wrong. Trump represented a faint hope that something might change. Clinton represented more of the same ole, same ole.

I get the desperation. People like my associate know nothing of it, and can go happily on with their lives in Brookline or the Back Bay, with only mild and temporary worry about the economy. I certainly feel the downturns in economy more than my coastal colleagues do, though I am still sheltered from them more than most of America. I understand the angst, though I hope the faint hope of change from a Trump presidency was not just based on Killary and every other evil aspect of her...

I agree with you except I think I understand why people voted for him. I have talked to a lot fo them who work for companies I represent in the midwest. They are good, honest, hard-working people who don't like Trump but who were disgusted by the arrogance and corruption they saw in Clinton and they wanted something--anything--different. They even felt desperate for something different and thus even if Trump was a fraud, which they realize, they think he is just a more honest fraud than the other politicians (meaning he shows it whereas they hide it, and this is supported by the wikileaks disclosures) and at least he said he supported their general ideas on various subjects. So they were willing to roll the dice.

People like your associate should be sobered. The on-going vilification of half the electorate is silly and ultimately will do nothing more than keep the country polarized and make it ever more difficult to govern effectively.

I've heard the same thing from friends and family. And I can't complain too much if their vote was calculated and not based solely on support; I did the same thing when I voted for Clinton. Still, it is up to his supporters to refute their votes if they were strategic and not in support of his demagoguery. As it would be if Clinton won.

And, the on-going villification runs both ways. It certainly helped the right side of the electorate reject Clinton. I assume agree with this, but it still needs to be said.

[Jeff Lebowski]

"We" didnt select him. Some portion of the republicans selected him. I still think that happened both becasue people thought he was entertaining (IOW didnt take it seriously) and becasue he was different, as I said above.

"He won because Clinton is worse" is true but oversimplistic. He touched a nerve that resonated with a significant portion of the population. And you don't win the nomination without a substantial percentage of the republican party firmly behind you. A bizarre and scary chapter in our nation's history.

[Topper]

And, the on-going villification runs both ways. It certainly helped the right side of the electorate reject Clinton. I assume agree with this, but it still needs to be said.

Smart politics is not to vilify the voters, just the politicians. Most voters cast their vote based upon emotion, not a studied evaluation of all facts and figures. Enough independents and disgruntled voters from one side or the other will gravitate if a politician remembers this cardinal rule. Clinton understood this intellectually, but not emotionally. Remember she tried to campaign as President for every one but then she never really felt that way. Basket of deplorables was how she felt and believed.

[creekster]

"He won because Clinton is worse" is true but oversimplistic. He touched a nerve that resonated with a significant portion of the population. And you don't win the nomination without a substantial percentage of the republican party firmly behind you. A bizarre and scary chapter in our nation's history.

I am not sure I agree with the second half of your statement. I dont think a substantial percentage of the party powers supported him until it was clear he was winning without them. Nothing succeeds like success.

AGree about the nerve being touched, but it wasnt, IMO, a racist or homophobic nerve to any large degree. It was the nerve of people who were tired of being talked down to, who were tired of being smiled at but being treated like they were deplorables, who were tired of being told to pay their share of taxes for others' entitlements when the economic recovery never really came to their communities or their families, who were tired of being told how to think and act while feeling ridiculed becasue they were in fly-over country and they felt this from both parties, even though it was their sons and daughters, as much as anyone's, who were fighting the wars and scratching out a living and trying to figure out why they were not doing as well as their parents did. Trump is a phony but he at least pandered to them on their level and in a way that seemed to appreciate them and, at base, Trump, who is crass and uncouth and who reacts and who just does stuff, is more one fo them than he is a political elite. This is why they didnt trust Romney. ROmeny is rich and a suit. Trump wears a suit but he is Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack. He is one of them. WHy not give him a chance? How bad can it be?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am not sure I agree with the second half of your statement. I dont think a substantial percentage of the party powers supported him until it was clear he was winning without them. Nothing succeeds like success.

AGree about the nerve being touched, but it wasnt, IMO, a racist or homophobic nerve to any large degree. It was the nerve of people who were tired of being talked down to, who were tired of being smiled at but being treated like they were deplorables, who were tired of being told to pay their share of taxes for others' entitlements when the economic recovery never really came to their communities or their families, who were tired of being told how to think and act while feeling ridiculed becasue they were in fly-over country and they felt this from both parties, even though it was their sons and daughters, as much as anyone's, who were fighting the wars and scratching out a living and trying to figure out why they were not doing as well as their parents did. Trump is a phony but he at least pandered to them on their level and in a way that seemed to appreciate them and, at base, Trump, who is crass and uncouth and who reacts and who just does stuff, is more one fo them than he is a political elite. This is why they didnt trust Romney. ROmeny is rich and a suit. Trump wears a suit but he is Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack. He is one of them. WHy not give him a chance? How bad can it be?

Yep.

[Maximus]

Romney unloads on Reid

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b04c8e2bb23a4d

“I was indeed very critical of Mr. Trump during his campaign. But now he has been elected president and accordingly, if I could have helped shape foreign policy to protect the country I love, I would have been more than willing to do so,” Romney said through a spokesperson. “As for Mr. Reid, I lost respect for him when he repeatedly lied about my taxes and later admitted to it cheerily. Good riddance, Mr. Reid. The Senate will be better served without you in it.”

[Jeff Lebowski]

Romney unloads on Reid

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b04c8e2bb23a4d

Harry Reid can go to hell. What a clown.