The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Moliere]

The DNC released their platform today. One section of it promises to use the DoJ to prosecute oil companies (I assume that means executives) for Global Warming Denial.

Interesting that coal companies get a pass.


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[YOhio]

Interesting that coal companies get a pass.


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I doubt many coal companies would say the last seven years would qualify as a pass.

[YOhio]

In most years the Higher Ed Price Index (HEPI) is higher than the CPI. It makes sense when you think of the insane administrative salaries, cadillac benefits packages and carrying the weight of old, overpaid tenured professors who won't quit. Funny thing is when you look at the raw data, huge increases in the HEPI have been avoided because of the quiet energy boom we've seen over the past six years.

https://www.commonfund.org/wp-conten...2016_Table.pdf

[Topper]

For those who still believe that Hillary isn't as bad as the Donald:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yo...rticle/2593571

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...e85708367.html

Something shocking about her comes out nearly every day. She is truly and awful candidate and clearly a worse person.

I agree.

There is no part of her character which is unsullied.

For those claiming her political experience makes her qualified. What? She has failed at each step. How does failing make you qualified in the political sense.

I have not seen any cogent argument that repudiates the fact that she is an abomination and a horrific human being. Trump and she are twins. To hell with both of them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The DNC released their platform today. One section of it promises to use the DoJ to prosecute oil companies (I assume that means executives) for Global Warming Denial.

Almost as dumb as Trump claiming that climate change is a hoax.

However, knowing your tendency to prevaricate on this topic, I decided to go straight to the platform and see what it says.

Climate Change and Clean Energy: Moving beyond the “all of the above” energy approach in the 2012 platform, the 2016 platform draft re-frames the urgency of climate change as a central challenge of our time, already impacting American communities and calling for generating 50 percent clean electricity within the next ten years. The Committee unanimously adopted a joint proposal from Sanders and Clinton representatives to commit to making America run entirely on clean energy by mid-century, and supporting the ambitious goals put forward by President Obama and the Paris climate agreement. Another joint proposal calling on the Department of Justice to investigate alleged corporate fraud on the part of fossil fuel companies who have reportedly misled shareholders and the public on the scientific reality of climate change was also adopted by unanimous consent.

Still plenty dumb, but not as extreme as you painted it.

I agree with YO about how vital oil is to our economy and our future. That is the argument that the oil companies should be making rather than promoting thoroughly discredited junk science. Or just keep their mouths shut and keep pumping as long as people are buying.

By the way, thank God that Bernie Sanders didn't get the nomination. He vowed to outlaw fracking.

[Omaha 680]

In most years the Higher Ed Price Index (HEPI) is higher than the CPI. It makes sense when you think of the insane administrative salaries, cadillac benefits packages and carrying the weight of old, overpaid tenured professors who won't quit. Funny thing is when you look at the raw data, huge increases in the HEPI have been avoided because of the quiet energy boom we've seen over the past six years.

https://www.commonfund.org/wp-conten...2016_Table.pdf

Yes. And to PAC's post: if we think tuition inflation is a problem now, what would prices be under a "free" college for all system? I guess the answer is the student wouldn't pay directly so he/she doesn't GAF.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Utah Senator Mike Lee unloads on Drumpf.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczy...966#.dyXqwlAzz

“We can get into that if you want,” he continued. “We can get into the fact that he accused my best friend’s father of conspiring to kill JFK. We can go through the fact that he’s made statements that some have identified correctly as religiously intolerant. We can get into the fact that he’s wildly unpopular in my state, in part because my state consists of people who are members of a religious minority church. A people who were ordered exterminated by the governor of Missouri in 1838. And, statements like that make them nervous.”

Lee said he could get over Trump’s statements, but Trump would need to say the right things.
“I can go on if you like,” added Lee. “But don’t sit here and tell me Steve that I have no reason to be concerned about Donald Trump.”

Wow.

[Northwestcoug]

I've been thinking about the "free college" plank of Bernie platform and, slap me now, I'm beginning to think it's not that bad of an idea. Long before my time, society felt it was necessary to equip everyone with a "free" K-12 education. Does anyone think that was a bad idea?

For much of the 20th Century, that level of education was sufficient to enable one to provide for oneself and one's family. But in the information age, that level of education is proving to be insufficient for most. The jobs that have gone offshore aren't the plum skill positions; they're the line worker jobs that pay minimally and which won't be coming back, despite Trump's goofball promises. Instead, we need more engineers, coders, designers, and others with training beyond high school.

Aren't we approaching a time when such training becomes as important to society as a K-12 education was thought to be a century ago?

I'm still not cancelling anyone's student loans, though.

When I was up north in med school, Quebec university students were paying some of the cheapest tuition rates in North America. I think undergrads paid something under 2000 a year for tuition. Post-graduate students didn't pay much more, even those in med and law school. I couldn't complain much, because at that time I was still paying a relatively cheap out of province tuition. But my native colleagues were still paying some insanely cheap tuition. Even in that environment, there was a yearly student protest demanding free tuition for all students. And each year it would start a provincial debate about education being an investment or right. Being the wise non-socialist political thinker I was, and realizing how much I was saving studying there, I chuckled at their naiveté.

I think it's a given that once government funds a social program, it not only creates a permanent liability but also an appetite for even more encompassing programs. I certainly think Quebec doctors and lawyers can afford to pay quite a bit more tuition that they were. But now I'm inclined to believe that amongst the extremes of free/nearly free post-secondary education and the potential crushing debt-inducing US education, the solution lies closer to the former.

[Nakoma]

I've been thinking about the "free college" plank of Bernie platform and, slap me now, I'm beginning to think it's not that bad of an idea. Long before my time, society felt it was necessary to equip everyone with a "free" K-12 education. Does anyone think that was a bad idea?

For much of the 20th Century, that level of education was sufficient to enable one to provide for oneself and one's family. But in the information age, that level of education is proving to be insufficient for most. The jobs that have gone offshore aren't the plum skill positions; they're the line worker jobs that pay minimally and which won't be coming back, despite Trump's goofball promises. Instead, we need more engineers, coders, designers, and others with training beyond high school.

Aren't we approaching a time when such training becomes as important to society as a K-12 education was thought to be a century ago?

I'm still not cancelling anyone's student loans, though.

Do you really want high school grads on the left side of the intelligence bell curve getting a free, taxpayer-funded college education?

[Topper]

I realize the chasm in political belief is large, but given that many here are articulate and defenders of indefensible positions and persons, is anybody actually voting for Hillary, not just against Trump?

I am interested in what positive attributes you believe she has. Mind you, I understand strategic voting, which is voting against somebody.

Do any of the issues below bother you, or do you just write them off as untrue allegations by her opponents?

Experience. She is limited to a frightfully inept period as Secretary of State and an insignificant period as a one term US Senator handed to her by virtue of her status as the spouse of Bill. How do you argue she has any meaningful experience?

Transparency.

Appearance of Corruption.

Donations to the Clinton Foundation by foreign individuals.

Failure to deliver emails in a timely fashion.

Her working sub rosa during 1993 in furtherance of Hillarycare in violation of public meeting laws.

Her public treatment of Bill's paramours.

Her flip flopping on gay rights.

Her denial of Bill's affairs.

Do you simply believe more in the Democratic platform and hence as its standard bearer, she gets your vote?

I've not read many arguments in favor her, just that she is not as bad as Trump, not necessarily a ringing endorsement btw.

[Northwestcoug]

I realize the chasm in political belief is large, but given that many here are articulate and defenders of indefensible positions and persons, is anybody actually voting for Hillary, not just against Trump?

I am interested in what positive attributes you believe she has. Mind you, I understand strategic voting, which is voting against somebody.

Do any of the issues below bother you, or do you just write them off as untrue allegations by her opponents?

Experience. She is limited to a frightfully inept period as Secretary of State and an insignificant period as a one term US Senator handed to her by virtue of her status as the spouse of Bill. How do you argue she has any meaningful experience?

Transparency.

Appearance of Corruption.

Donations to the Clinton Foundation by foreign individuals.

Failure to deliver emails in a timely fashion.

Her working sub rosa during 1993 in furtherance of Hillarycare in violation of public meeting laws.

Her public treatment of Bill's paramours.

Her flip flopping on gay rights.

Her denial of Bill's affairs.

Do you simply believe more in the Democratic platform and hence as its standard bearer, she gets your vote?

I've not read many arguments in favor her, just that she is not as bad as Trump, not necessarily a ringing endorsement btw.

LOL, Topper. You keep banging that drum. You may just convince someone here to not vote for Hillary.

But just for the record (again), my vote is both for Hillary and against Trump. I don't care how convincing the arguments are for her ineptitude, inexperience, or corruption. I dislike Hillary and am disgusted with the current political leadership. I would certainly like to support a libertarian platform that is not crazy, but I don't have that option this year. Perhaps most importantly, I believe that the nation will be better off politically and economically under her leadership, as opposed to Trump's. And, a vote for her saves me the embarrassment of voting for Trump, who truly is a contemptible person.

[Topper]

LOL, Topper. You keep banging that drum. You may just convince someone here to not vote for Hillary.

But just for the record (again), my vote is both for Hillary and against Trump. I don't care how convincing the arguments are for her ineptitude, inexperience, or corruption. I dislike Hillary and am disgusted with the current political leadership. I would certainly like to support a libertarian platform that is not crazy, but I don't have that option this year. Perhaps most importantly, I believe that the nation will be better off politically and economically under her leadership, as opposed to Trump's. And, a vote for her saves me the embarrassment of voting for Trump, who truly is a contemptible person.

In other words, you are voting strategically and against Trump, because you can't make an argument to overcome her negatives. Just admit that. I respect your right to be wrong, that is the essence of libertarianism, as opposed to liberalism which dictates a nanny state so that nobody fails or makes any mistakes. You proved my point by being incapable of identifying any virtues of Hillary. But you are correct, she is without virtue.

However, you didn't answer any other questions. Do you believe the country will be better off because you identify with the Democratic Party's economic platform? Do you trust the Democrats to spend your money more wisely? Do you trust them to spend less than the GOP?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I need to read the Onion more, I'm never disappointed: Donald Trump holds a fundraising riot where the more you pay the more you get to brawl with protesters.

http://www.theonion.com/article/fina...s-fundra-53140

[SeattleUte]

I've been thinking about the "free college" plank of Bernie platform and, slap me now, I'm beginning to think it's not that bad of an idea. Long before my time, society felt it was necessary to equip everyone with a "free" K-12 education. Does anyone think that was a bad idea?

For much of the 20th Century, that level of education was sufficient to enable one to provide for oneself and one's family. But in the information age, that level of education is proving to be insufficient for most. The jobs that have gone offshore aren't the plum skill positions; they're the line worker jobs that pay minimally and which won't be coming back, despite Trump's goofball promises. Instead, we need more engineers, coders, designers, and others with training beyond high school.

Aren't we approaching a time when such training becomes as important to society as a K-12 education was thought to be a century ago?

I'm still not cancelling anyone's student loans, though.

Yes. You probably read my post in facebook where I said that this was his one idea that is worth considering or pursuing.

But I don't think he is smart or honest enough to approach it this way.

[Topper]

Yes. You probably read my post in facebook where I said that this was his one idea that is worth considering or pursuing.

But I don't think he is smart or honest enough to approach it this way.

It would be screwed up if it were pursued. It would be expanded beyond the beneficial and necessary boundaries. Never trust a program to be created that would benefit society if it can be limited to discrete numbers where it can be made popular by expanding beyond its useful application.