Eric Posner: Free speech is overrated

[Goatnapper'96]

I can't believe how many people have posted w/ not one calling 'Napper on this bullshit Seinfeld revisionism.

Costanza (not "Constanza" ) shouts fire in an APARTMENT at a child's birthday party - not a theater.

Pretty much voids your entire argument.

Especially once you consider that the scene features Jon Favreau as a clown - before he was famous for anything else.

Seinfeld clip George fire - YouTube

I thought it was an auditoreum, but fire in a theater if the example when discussing the limitations on free speech. My posts are composites!

[TexTechCoug]

The issue I see with limiting free speech is the inevitable uneven application. You can't say anything about Mohammed because a bunch of Muslims will throw a violent tantrum, on the flip side you can have an entire broadway show based on a "tender" but not not so becoming version of Mormonism, and because Mormons won't be killing anyone that speech is protected.

Which speech is protected should neither depend on whom it offends nor their response. Soon judges and groups would be to electively suppress voices of which they don't approve, purely on an ideological basis.

[wuapinmon]

That's an awful lot of exceptions. How does hate-crime not fit into at least two of those categories?

I think the onus is on you to show to which two you are referring.

[il Padrino Ute]

When reading EPUs posts, I tend to agree with Eric Posner.

So, you agree that free speech in the US is overrated?

[il Padrino Ute]

There's quite a bit of commentary along these lines, il pad. One of the arguments is that our notion of free speech has been so inflated and distorted that the principle is being used to the detriment of the very people it should serve. Think Citizens United, for example.

I don't have a problem with Citizens United.

Free speech is what sets the US apart from the world. I believe that there is such thing as unprotected speech, such as child porn, or yelling fire in a crowded movie theater, but I don't think that anyone in this country should have to be careful what they say so as to not offend the world, which is what I think Posner is saying.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't have a problem with Citizens United.

Free speech is what sets the US apart from the world. I believe that there is such thing as unprotected speech, such as child porn, or yelling fire in a crowded movie theater, but I don't think that anyone in this country should have to be careful what they say so as to not offend the world, which is what I think Posner is saying.

You think that the Muslim world should just get used to the fact that we can say what we want over here?

You sound more and more like Obama every day.

[Topper]

Posner, at least in the piece, does not identify the standard by which a court or anybody else should limit offensive speech.

I have not seen the video complained about. I don't know if Posner's claim is accurate, that it has no beneficial content. Salman Rushdie's, "Satanic Verses", which discusses some disputed verses in the Qu'ran also was supposed of no value, though closer inspection reveals it has some interesting content, not without precedent within Islamic studies.

Does Posner suggest we should limit speech to the sensibilities of other persons outside the confines of the United States? We tend to advocate holding claims up to the clear light of day. Many Islamic claims do not do well when held to this standard. Is he stating every culture is allowed to impose upon the limits of free speech whatever it finds offensive?

The problem I have with Posner's inquiry is it ignore the scientific method for assessment and evaluation. Often what requires examination will offend the entrenched. In Slate, another author, a Harvard professor no less, takes the Muslims to task. http://www.slate.com/authors.tarek_masoud.html

[wuapinmon]

The Satanic Verses is one of the finest specimens of magic realism ever written.

[Topper]

The Satanic Verses is one of the finest specimens of magic realism ever written.

It is interesting to draw upon the verses allegedly submitted by Satan rescinding his monotheism to convert the Meccans.

[wuapinmon]

It is interesting to draw upon the verses allegedly submitted by Satan rescinding his monotheism to convert the Meccans.

He recently wrote an article in the New Yorker that details what it was like to live under the early days of the fatwa. A fascinating tale. I got to hear him read, live, from Midnight's Children at USC back in 2009, and he was amazing.

His life is proof enough why we need absolute freedom of speech, and why we should defend those who become victims of people who hate that freedom.

[il Padrino Ute]

You think that the Muslim world should just get used to the fact that we can say what we want over here?

You sound more and more like Obama every day.

What the hell are you talking about? Obama's stance is to not say anything bad about Muslims because it's not nice to mock their religion.

And yes, the Muslim world should just deal with the fact that we here in the US are free to state our opinions.

Now, have the guts to answer my question:

Do you agree with Posner that free speech is overrated?

[TripletDaddy]

What the hell are you talking about? Obama's stance is to not say anything bad about Muslims because it's not nice to mock their religion.

And yes, the Muslim world should just deal with the fact that we here in the US are free to state our opinions.

Now, have the guts to answer my question:

Do you agree with Posner that free speech is overrated?

Is that obama's stance???

[il Padrino Ute]

Is that obama's stance???

Well, he took time off from his busy talk show schedule to speak at the UN and said "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

http://www.nationalreview.com/campai...lander-prophet

And again, do you agree with Posner that free speech is overrated?

[TripletDaddy]

Well, he took time off from his busy talk show schedule to speak at the UN and said "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

http://www.nationalreview.com/campai...lander-prophet

And again, do you agree with Posner that free speech is overrated?

Which article are we talking about? I was focusing on the one you originally linked. That was the one you wanted to discuss.

Based on that article, it appears that you and Obama share the same stance.

are you now saying that the article you oringally linked is inaccurate? Or do you no longer wish to discuss that article and now want to talk about something else?

[UtahDan]

I don't think it is overrated. It is not an unqualified right, of course, even in this county. However it should NEVER be qualified because of someone's religious sensibilities. Our first amendment says that too. And that is really what we are talking about here, IMO.