Prop. 8 Aftermath: It's Getting Worse

[RobinFinderson]

The effort to get the Church in trouble is not going to produce anything other than perhaps some technical violations.

Technical violations and mountains of bad press. The purpose here is to cause the church a mountain of hurt, so that it will reconsider the extend of its participation the next time this issue goes around.

The church may not have TECHNICALLY lent the campaign material support, but its efforts won the day. The church may not TECHNICALLY lose its tax exempt status, but it will pay a heavy price for its participation. That is politics, in which the real purpose is different than the stated purpose for just about everything.

[LA Ute]

Technical violations and mountains of bad press. The purpose here is to cause the church a mountain of hurt, so that it will reconsider the extend of its participation the next time this issue goes around.

The church may not have TECHNICALLY lent the campaign material support, but its efforts won the day. The church may not TECHNICALLY lose its tax exempt status, but it will pay a heavy price for its participation. That is politics, in which the real purpose is different than the stated purpose for just about everything.

Just a few thoughts about this most sensitive subject.

First, it seems that some of the posts here assume the Church did commit some election law violations. I don't know of any evidence of that. Besides, as I said above, Fred Karger and his Californians Against Hate are ardent gay rights activists and, I think, propagandists. All their allegations deserve great skepticism. I've heard Karger make statements in news media interviews that reveal considerable recklessness with the facts.

Second, I am ambivalent about the "bad press" issue. I just don't know how much we should care. The news media in the USA is never going to be our friend. They will, however, be pretty friendly to the cause of gay rights. I don't see how that can be denied after the Prop 8 experience. We can only hope they will be fair.

I say that after a couple of years of blogging about the impact of Mitt Romney's Mormonism on his presidential campaign. I am not a scholar in that area, but I think I know a lot; I saw everything that appeared about the subject in English-language news and opinion media, worldwide. It was not pretty.

Third, I've noticed that generally, LDS people tend to superimpose their own political concerns on the Church's public image issues. (No surprise there.) I participated in two Sunstone symposia on the Romney candidacy and was struck by how distressed the attendees (almost all political liberals) were about Romney seeking the support of conservative Christian voters. In contrast, the more right-leaning Mormons were more upset about Evangelical anti-Mormon bigotry than the fact that Mitt wanted Evangelical votes.

Peggy Fletcher Stack's coverage in the Salt Lake Tribune reflects the Sunstone view. (Not surprising, since Peggy was Sustone's editor for many years. I know her and she is a good, kind and fair person.) It seems to me that many of the people she quotes in her stories (many of them her personal friends and acquaintances) are fretting about the PR fallout he Church may sustain from Prop 8, and especially about the Church being "in bed" with Evangelicals who are not friends of the LDS Church. There is a lot to be said about that; I have a fairly high level of discomfort with some Evangelicals myself. I can say with a great deal of assurance, however, that in the course of Prop 8 the Church made many friends and converted some former foes into friends at best and neutral admirers at worst.

Anyway, just some observations. I now need to pay attention to real work!

[Solon]

Second, I am ambivalent about the "bad press" issue. I just don't know how much we should care.

Like you, I don't think anything substantial will come from these accusations, but I do think the LDS church - both leadership and general membership - is heavily concerned with its public image.

There is quite a body of literature that talks about the LDS church's paradoxical position as an exclusive body with an inclusive ideology. This causes all sorts of problems in trying to appeal to as many people as possible while holding onto whatever it is that provides the unique path to salvation.

In Transformation of the Mormon Culture Region (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2003) Ethan Yorgason explained that twentieth century Mormons' “inferiority complex vis-à-vis the rest of the United States” was (is?) driven by “[f]eelings of embarrassment” over Mormonism’s unique cultural quirks (pg. 190).

Maybe, but I think there's more to it. As U of U historian Larry Gerlach phrased it in his massive article about the LDS church and the 2002 Olympic Winter Games, "the old saw that Mormons want two things above all --to convert and to be liked -- is only a slight exaggeration." (pg. 32)

PR is huge to today's LDS church. All you have to do is log onto their website and see what's coming out of the church's official newsroom.

[creekster]

In case I wasn't clear, I think there may have been some technical violations of campaign finance regulations, although LAUte astutely points out that much is being assumed here without solid evidence supporting it. I am no expert on these issues and base my own speculation on the variance between what we were instructed to do (or not do) and what in fact took place. Either way, I do not think these are significant issues. Further, as was pointed out earlier, the article talks about campaign contribution violations; none of this is going to threaten the Church's tax exempt status.

I also think Solon's point is interesting. The desire to be liked runs deep in Mormon (and especially Utah Mormon) culture. SO deep that I think it may be hard to overstate its importance in analyzing the church's actions in a public arena. Unlike RF, I do not think this is going to be a PR disaster. To the contrary, I agree with the thought that the church's position has gained new friends to at least the same (if not greater) degree it alienated old ones. Even so, the protests strike at the church in ways the protesters probably do not appreciate. Ironically, it is the very peculiarity that makes the church a safe protest target that also makes the protests hurt in a personal (but ultimately ineffective) way.

[LA Ute]

In Transformation of the Mormon Culture Region (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2003) Ethan Yorgason explained that twentieth century Mormons' “inferiority complex vis-à-vis the rest of the United States” was (is?) driven by “[f]eelings of embarrassment” over Mormonism’s unique cultural quirks (pg. 190).

Maybe, but I think there's more to it. As U of U historian Larry Gerlach phrased it in his massive article about the LDS church and the 2002 Olympic Winter Games, "the old saw that Mormons want two things above all --to convert and to be liked -- is only a slight exaggeration." (pg. 32)

PR is huge to today's LDS church. All you have to do is log onto their website and see what's coming out of the church's official newsroom.

Interesting points. I do wonder if Yorgason and Gerlach do not overstate the problem. I agree that collectively we have an inferiority complex (and it even shows up in BYU athletics), but I do not think that drives the decisions of the
First Presidency and the Twelve. I also think Gerlach is wrong when he says our greatest desire is to convert. At the highest levels I think our leaders want us to be understood more than liked. That's consistent with the mission of the Church, in any event. I also think it is why so many resources go into Public Affairs. As Orson Hyde once said (I am paraphrasing), "If you want to attack or ridicule my faith, go ahead; but please attack or ridicule what I actually believe, not some ridiculous caricature of my faith."

[Solon]

Interesting points. I do wonder if Yorgason and Gerlach do not overstate the problem. I agree that collectively we have an inferiority complex (and it even shows up in BYU athletics), but I do not think that drives the decisions of the
First Presidency and the Twelve. I also think Gerlach is wrong when he says our greatest desire is to convert. At the highest levels I think our leaders want us to be understood more than liked. That's consistent with the mission of the Church, in any event. I also think it is why so many resources go into Public Affairs. As Orson Hyde once said (I am paraphrasing), "If you want to attack or ridicule my faith, go ahead; but please attack or ridicule what I actually believe, not some ridiculous caricature of my faith."

It might be different today. Gerlach and Yorgason were writing about the twentieth century - although Gerlach was concerned with mostly the 80s and 90s, not all that long ago.

I also think there's an inordinate amount of focus on US LDS.

[RobinFinderson]

Whether or not there were violations isn't going to be a big deal in the long run. The church's tax exempt status is probably not in danger. The real goal of the Marriage Equality crowd is to make the price of the church's political participation too high so that Mormons are less willing to contribute next time. Whether there were violations is less important than the indisputable fact that the LDS church flexed its political muscle. Now the supporters of Equal Marriage are going to flex their muscle and hurt the church as much as they can.

Creekster doesn't think this is going to significantly hurt the church. I think it is too early to tell. If gay people gain full social acceptance people will eventually look at their civil rights battles in the same way they look at civil rights for minorities. If that happens, the church will take a serious PR hit in all areas except among the homophobic.

As it stands, the church has most definitely taken a PR hit among intellectuals. On the other hand, did the church ever stand the chance of winning the membership of many intellectuals?

The church will also lose some respect from people with gay friends and family members. I realize there are plenty of religious folks, like Waters' parents, who can oppose Marriage Equality even while they have gay children, but for the most part, I think this crowd breaks toward sympathy with gay people. More importantly, as an increasing number of gay people choose to live openly gay lifestyles, more people will be aware of how many gay friends they really have.

In the long run, I think this is going to hurt the church significantly. But whatever, right? No unhallowed hand, and the fields are ripe, and all of that. Following the prophet brings about the Lord's ends, in the Lord's time frame. The true believer has nothing to worry about.

[LA Ute]

If gay people gain full social acceptance people will eventually look at their civil rights battles in the same way they look at civil rights for minorities. If that happens, the church will take a serious PR hit in all areas except among the homophobic.

As it stands, the church has most definitely taken a PR hit among intellectuals. On the other hand, did the church ever stand the chance of winning the membership of many intellectuals?

. . . But whatever, right? No unhallowed hand, and the fields are ripe, and all of that. Following the prophet brings about the Lord's ends, in the Lord's time frame. The true believer has nothing to worry about.

Yup. The real battle will be over whether being gay becomes just like being African-American or Latino or a member of another minority group. If that happens anyone who opposes same-sex marriage will be in the same boat, PR-wise, as those who opposed miscegenation on religious grounds prior to Loving v. Virginia. In that scenario, the days prior to 1978 and the change in the priesthood "policy" will look pleasant to us by comparison. I.e., things could get pretty bad for us pretty fast.

I am still holding out hope that civil unions will eventually be accepted in the USA as a compromise the same way they are accepted in the U.K. and France. (See Elton John.) Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist.

But . . . achieving that state of public thinking (homosexuality equates to race) is the goal of the gay rights community. The real "war" that's being fought is over that issue.