The Elizabeth Warren v. Scott Brown thread

[Paperback Writer]

I did have friends growing up in Maine who looked as caucasian as the rest of us (one who even had blonde hair/blue eyes) who were affiliated with a tribe and received tribal benefits. Because their tribal populations were decimated a good 120 years before L&C even thought about going west, and they were the point of first contact, many of the New England Tribes are basically indistinguishable on their face from the rest of the Euromutts walking around.

...or they are really White Nephites who survived. I've lived in Maine and it's about as land Northward as one can get.

Now, I'm going to have to get a crakin' on my wife's genealogy. Her father's line are Sooners from Oklahoma and there's been mention of Native American ancestry. Never know if one of my kids will opt for a career in law. I mention this only so my kids can meet others and maybe get invited to a luncheon. Maybe they can form a club: "White Nephite Future Attorneys (WNFA)"

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I realize there's an offensive term here, but this is still funny.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

An update. Elizabeth Warren's great-great-great grandmother, from whom she inherited her supposed Cherokee ancestry, was listed on the 1860 census as being white.

Her great-great-great grandfather, from whom she derives another 1/32nd of her ancestry, apparently served in the East Tennessee Mounted Infantry Volunteer Militia which removed the Cherokees from North Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia.

Of course, IMO, the second fact makes it plausible that the great-great-great grandfather married the great x3 grandmother while he was busy carrying on his duties of setting the Cherokees out on the Trail of Tears.

[Moliere]

An update. Elizabeth Warren's great-great-great grandmother, from whom she inherited her supposed Cherokee ancestry, was listed on the 1860 census as being white.

Her great-great-great grandfather, from whom she derives another 1/32nd of her ancestry, apparently served in the East Tennessee Mounted Infantry Volunteer Militia which removed the Cherokees from North Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia.

Of course, IMO, the second fact makes it plausible that the great-great-great grandfather married the great x3 grandmother while he was busy carrying on his duties of setting the Cherokees out on the Trail of Tears.

While I'm not sure if there is any evidence of this, I'd say this is a very plausible, if not probable, conclusion.

While I have some skeletons in my ancestral closet just like Warren, she deserves to be vetted over this given how she used that heritage to climb the academic ladder.

[RobinFinderson]

While I have some skeletons in my ancestral closet just like Warren, she deserves to be vetted over this given how she used that heritage to climb the academic ladder.

Is there actually any evidence that she benefited from this at all? I mean, if I were on an admissions board, and I set up an interview with an American Indian, and Ms. Warren showed up for the interview, I would probably consider her claim of minority status a strike against her, unless she had a damn good explanation. I would definitely ask her to talk about the significance of her claimed heritage, to see what it meant to her. If her response were to be the same that she has given recently, I would neither hold it against her nor would I count it as a benefit in my scoring of the applicant. But that is just me, giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'd bet most people would hold it against her.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

While I'm not sure if there is any evidence of this, I'd say this is a very plausible, if not probable, conclusion.

While I have some skeletons in my ancestral closet just like Warren, she deserves to be vetted over this given how she used that heritage to climb the academic ladder.

Ironically, to the extent she used this for her career advancement, she may have kept out someone that genuinely was a minority and was subjected to various forms of discrimination.

I'd be curious to know how someone like, say, Larry Echohawk would have thought about something like this. (I doubt he actually thinks very much about this kind of stuff right now).

[Moliere]

Is there actually any evidence that she benefited from this at all? I mean, if I were on an admissions board, and I set up an interview with an American Indian, and Ms. Warren showed up for the interview, I would probably consider her claim of minority status a strike against her, unless she had a damn good explanation. I would definitely ask her to talk about the significance of her claimed heritage, to see what it meant to her. If her response were to be the same that she has given recently, I would neither hold it against her nor would I count it as a benefit in my scoring of the applicant. But that is just me, giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'd bet most people would hold it against her.

That would go over well

[RobinFinderson]

So there is no evidence that she benefited from the claimed heritage, and people agree with me that it could have easily been held against her?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Is there actually any evidence that she benefited from this at all? I mean, if I were on an admissions board, and I set up an interview with an American Indian, and Ms. Warren showed up for the interview, I would probably consider her claim of minority status a strike against her, unless she had a damn good explanation. I would definitely ask her to talk about the significance of her claimed heritage, to see what it meant to her. If her response were to be the same that she has given recently, I would neither hold it against her nor would I count it as a benefit in my scoring of the applicant. But that is just me, giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'd bet most people would hold it against her.

The thing with Warren is that she was a professor of some renown at Harvard. I knew about her long before her Senate campaign and long before her inane comment last year about the rich not paying their fair share. While her education credentials put her as an outlier on the Harvard Law faculty, her publications and her notoriety in her field certainly made her worthy of her position at Harvard.

In other words, she was the opposite of Barack Obama in that he had superior education credentials but never published anything and probably wouldn't have ever approached Warren's level had he stayed in academia.

[byu71]

Whenever I heard Ms Warren speak she sounded bright, but also with the "my shit don't stink" attitude. She was brighter than everyone else and a gift to the public.

With that attitude it doesn't surprise me she could do some borderline things and not have a twinge of guilt. After all, the result is the public has her and all her talent and that is more important than any little discrepencies in her past.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

So there is no evidence that she benefited from the claimed heritage, and people agree with me that it could have easily been held against her?

Do you want direct evidence? Do you think the law schools will come out and say "yeah, we hired her because she checked off the box that she was minority and we needed to demonstrate some diversity"? Sorry, you're not getting direct evidence.

But I think it's silly to deny that universities aren't trying to look at least ostensibly diverse. It carries some major cachet in their world.

[RobinFinderson]

Do you want direct evidence? Do you think the law schools will come out and say "yeah, we hired her because she checked off the box that she was minority and we needed to demonstrate some diversity"? Sorry, you're not getting direct evidence.

But I think it's silly to deny that universities aren't trying to look at least ostensibly diverse. It carries some major cachet in their world.

When schools have affirmative action programs in place, it is not a secret. The school is typically proud of it. Has it even been established that affirmative action programs were in place when she applied for these positions?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

When schools have affirmative action programs in place, it is not a secret. The school is typically proud of it. Has it even been established that affirmative action programs were in place when she applied for these positions?

It's been established that Harvard listed her as a minority professor.

But given that she was hired in the mid 90s, I think it's safe to say that Harvard was looking for diversity. BYU's law school tries to seek out diversity.

[RobinFinderson]

Do you want direct evidence? Do you think the law schools will come out and say "yeah, we hired her because she checked off the box that she was minority and we needed to demonstrate some diversity"? Sorry, you're not getting direct evidence.

But I think it's silly to deny that universities aren't trying to look at least ostensibly diverse. It carries some major cachet in their world.

Do you have any reason to believe that Harvard would lie about an existing affirmative action program?

Anyhow, HERE is some evidence that she was NOT hired as a part of an affirmative action program:

Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Reagan, said Warren was recruited to be a tenured professor because she was pre-eminent in the fields of bankruptcy and commercial law. Fried, a member of the appointments committee that reviewed Warren, said the subject of her Native American ancestry was never mentioned.

Fried, who has donated $250 to Warren's campaign, said the notion that Warren "attained her position and maintains her reputation on anything other than her evident merit is complete nonsense."

"In spite of conclusive evidence to the contrary, the story continues to circulate that Elizabeth Warren enjoyed some kind of affirmative action leg-up in her hiring as a full professor by the Harvard Law School," Fried wrote Monday. "The innuendo is false."

[Moliere]

Do you have any reason to believe that Harvard would lie about an existing affirmative action program?

Anyhow, HERE is some evidence that she was NOT hired as a part of an affirmative action program:

LOL! That sounds like an objective person to make this claim.