Obamacare cost...

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hmm... crony capitalism? Follow the money.




The solution...

FDA --> <-- Libertarians

(Less regulation)

Until then things like the "Dark Web" (aka. "silk road") will become very popular in getting the drugs that americans need (or don't need). Buying sh*t on the dark web isn't rocket science.

Under the libertarian model, how do we ensure that drugs are screened for efficacy and safety?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Epipen CEO lied about having an MBA degree. It was later discovered and political and financial pressure were applied to WVU to grant her a degree retroactively. WVU president was later forced to resign over the scandal. Lovely lady.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/24/heres...ice-hikes.html

[Uncle Ted]

Under the libertarian model, how do we ensure that drugs are screened for efficacy and safety?

The same way it is screened on amazon... reputation. The government shouldn't be our mother.

Which is better? The way things are now where people are dying because the FDA drags it feet on drug testing and other drugs competing are killed because the crony capitalists "pay to play". Folks out of desperation buy the drugs they need on the black market because they can't afford the normal healthcare channels?

Or having your doctor give you the information about an experimental drug that might save your life? "Well there is this experimental drugs that isn't widely used yet but in many cases it cured people of the terminal illness that you happen to have. All you have to do is sign these consent forms to get it. But I do advise that your read all this research and talk to other doctors. You are a big boy so you can make this kind of decision all by yourself."

[Jeff Lebowski]

The same way it is screened on amazon... reputation. The government shouldn't be our mother.

Which is better? The way things are now where people are dying because the FDA drags it feet on drug testing and other drugs competing are killed because the crony capitalists "pay to play". Folks out of desperation buy the drugs they need on the black market because they can't afford the normal healthcare channels?

Or having your doctor give you the information about an experimental drug that might save your life? "Well there is this experimental drugs that isn't widely used yet but in many cases it cured people of the terminal illness that you happen to have. All you have to do is sign these consent forms to get it. But I do advise that your read all this research and talk to other doctors. You are a big boy so you can make this kind of decision all by yourself."

Not a terribly convincing argument. Look at all the fraud (and obscene profits) in the unregulated supplement industry.

[Uncle Ted]

Epipen CEO lied about having an MBA degree. It was later discovered and political and financial pressure were applied to WVU to grant her a degree retroactively. WVU president was later forced to resign over the scandal. Lovely lady.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/24/heres...ice-hikes.html

The CEO is the daughter of a U.S. senator. She reincorporated her U.S.-based drug company in the Netherlands, which cut its tax liability.

Daughter of an U.S. Senator (democrat). This has crony capitalists stink all over it. I bet this senator had Obama's ear in signing that bill that bumped the stock price on this company.

[Uncle Ted]

Not a terribly convincing argument. Look at all the fraud (and obscene profits) in the unregulated supplement industry.

I am not saying replacing medical doctors with witch doctors... I am saying reduce the FDA regulation and let folks make informed decisions and try experimental drugs. And of course, eliminate the crony capitalism with transparency. The way it is now we can only get our experimental drugs on the dark web and transparency on wikileaks.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am not saying replacing medical doctors with witch doctors... I am saying reduce the FDA regulation and let folks make informed decisions and try experimental drugs. And of course, eliminate the crony capitalism with transparency. The way it is now we can only get our experimental drugs on the dark web and transparency on wikileaks.

That might help.

[cowboy]

It is not like the epipen is a new product. My daughter has used them for years. For a long time they were $100. The only reason the price shot up is because the competition is gone. This is good old-fashioned price gouging.

I agree. Again, my question is where has the competition gone and why?

[Northwestcoug]

The same way it is screened on amazon... reputation. The government shouldn't be our mother.

Which is better? The way things are now where people are dying because the FDA drags it feet on drug testing and other drugs competing are killed because the crony capitalists "pay to play". Folks out of desperation buy the drugs they need on the black market because they can't afford the normal healthcare channels?

Or having your doctor give you the information about an experimental drug that might save your life? "Well there is this experimental drugs that isn't widely used yet but in many cases it cured people of the terminal illness that you happen to have. All you have to do is sign these consent forms to get it. But I do advise that your read all this research and talk to other doctors. You are a big boy so you can make this kind of decision all by yourself."

I'm not sure I want to trust an unregulated market when my kid is having an anaphylactic shock, trusting that the epipen that got a 4.3 rating on Amazon is pure enough to save her life.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm not sure I want to trust an unregulated market when my kid is having an anaphylactic shock, trusting that the epipen that got a 4.3 rating on Amazon is pure enough to save her life.

Yeah, but after your daughter died, think of the satisfaction you would get writing that negative review. Zero stars, baby.

[Northwestcoug]

Yeah, but after your daughter died, think of the satisfaction you would get writing that negative review. Zero stars, baby.

That'll show them. They won't be selling any more after I write my scathing review. The market self corrects!

[snowcat]

Not a terribly convincing argument. Look at all the fraud (and obscene profits) in the unregulated supplement industry.

This lie again?

[Uncle Ted]

I'm not sure I want to trust an unregulated market when my kid is having an anaphylactic shock, trusting that the epipen that got a 4.3 rating on Amazon is pure enough to save her life.

Then buy the more expensive one that got a 4.4 rating or not one at all.

[snowcat]

This lie again?

FDA regulates both finished dietary supplement products and dietary ingredients. FDA regulates dietary supplements under a different set of regulations than those covering "conventional" foods and drug products. Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA):
Manufacturers and distributors of dietary supplements and dietary ingredients are prohibited from marketing products that are adulterated or misbranded. That means that these firms are responsible for evaluating the safety and labeling of their products before marketing to ensure that they meet all the requirements of DSHEA and FDA regulations.

FDA is responsible for taking action against any adulterated or misbranded dietary supplement product after it reaches the market.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/

[Jeff Lebowski]

This lie again?

True. There is technically some regulation. But it is a different set of rules that is so gutless as to be meaningless and ineffective. The supplement industry can quite literally peddle snake oil and get away with it.