How Doctors Die

[doctorcoug]

Just stop digging, dude. Stop.

My point was a very valid point, if one understands the medicine. Many patients who arrest end up with heart failure, often severe. One of the hallmark treatments of heart failure is to optimize the beta blocker. A total daily dose of 50 mg of coreg is a massive amount of beta blockade, but is the correct management if one has severe heart failure. To give perspective, we start heart failure patients on a daily dose of around 6 mg, depending upon previous medications. We optimize based upon symptoms. Many just look at the pulse. I always ask, "how do you feel?"

Patients often say, "doc, that heart pill makes me feel awful". Are they happy to be alive? Absolutely. Do they feel good? Rarely. Are they normal? Absolutely not.

There are situations where living is worse than dying. As CC said, there are patients where this isn't the case. For the vast majority of our arrested patients (non-witnessed), living is worse than dying. Physicians talk about this all the time in the doctor's lounge, which is why many doctors die at home.

[Donuthole]

My point was a very valid point, if one understands the medicine. Many patients who arrest end up with heart failure, often severe. One of the hallmark treatments of heart failure is to optimize the beta blocker. A total daily dose of 50 mg of coreg is a massive amount of beta blockade, but is the correct management if one has severe heart failure. To give perspective, we start heart failure patients on a daily dose of around 6 mg, depending upon previous medications. We optimize based upon symptoms. Many just look at the pulse. I always ask, "how do you feel?"

Patients often say, "doc, that heart pill makes me feel awful". Are they happy to be alive? Absolutely. Do they feel good? Rarely. Are they normal? Absolutely not.

There are situations where living is worse than dying. As CC said, there are patients where this isn't the case. For the vast majority of our arrested patients (non-witnessed), living is worse than dying. Physicians talk about this all the time in the doctor's lounge, which is why many doctors die at home.

Or keep digging. Your choice.

[doctorcoug]

Or keep digging. Your choice.

I already have an overbearing mother...

[The Wankster]

Sorry for barging in here but I am one of those "patients" who would rather live with the side affects than die from the disease...
I take a shit pile of medicine, every damn day, the alternative?

While my Doctor sees no real improvement to me and yes I feel like crap at times, there is NO WAY I want to visit the next life yet.

So I'll continue with the lisinopril, the aspirin, the water pills, the potassium, and the twice daily 25mg carvedilols....

I will also take my chances that when my heart fibs out, my Medtronic MaximoII will do its $85,000.00 job and help me ride the lightning back to recovery...

Sorry for the rant, carry on...

[Jarid in Cedar]

Sorry for barging in here but I am one of those "patients" who would rather live with the side affects than die from the disease...
I take a shit pile of medicine, every damn day, the alternative?

While my Doctor sees no real improvement to me and yes I feel like crap at times, there is NO WAY I want to visit the next life yet.

So I'll continue with the lisinopril, the aspirin, the water pills, the potassium, and the twice daily 25mg carvedilols....

I will also take my chances that when my heart fibs out, my Medtronic MaximoII will do its $85,000.00 job and help me ride the lightning back to recovery...

Sorry for the rant, carry on...

[Donuthole]

Sorry for barging in here but I am one of those "patients" who would rather live with the side affects than die from the disease...
I take a shit pile of medicine, every damn day, the alternative?

While my Doctor sees no real improvement to me and yes I feel like crap at times, there is NO WAY I want to visit the next life yet.

So I'll continue with the lisinopril, the aspirin, the water pills, the potassium, and the twice daily 25mg carvedilols....

I will also take my chances that when my heart fibs out, my Medtronic MaximoII will do its $85,000.00 job and help me ride the lightning back to recovery...

Sorry for the rant, carry on...

Welcome to the club of those who do not understand the medicine!

[UtahDan]

Sorry for barging in here but I am one of those "patients" who would rather live with the side affects than die from the disease...
I take a shit pile of medicine, every damn day, the alternative?

While my Doctor sees no real improvement to me and yes I feel like crap at times, there is NO WAY I want to visit the next life yet.

So I'll continue with the lisinopril, the aspirin, the water pills, the potassium, and the twice daily 25mg carvedilols....

I will also take my chances that when my heart fibs out, my Medtronic MaximoII will do its $85,000.00 job and help me ride the lightning back to recovery...

Sorry for the rant, carry on...

My dad walks around with a defibrillator too. Has for many years now in fact and enjoys a very high quality of life after a congestive heart failure that put his odds of meaningful recovery pretty low.

I didn't take this conversation or the point of the article to be that people should just give up and die f they have to accept a reduced quality of life. I thought it was more along the lines that when it comes down to the point when most of the options have been exhausted and only misery inflicting-short term benefit-long shot treatments are left, most doctors don't opt for them. But I do appreciate your perspective as I know I would accept a much lower quality of life for myself if it meant that I could still be a husband, dad, etc. for longer.

[woot]

I posted this in the Hitchens thread, but given the subject matter it seems a perfect supplement to the article under discussion in this thread:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/01/hitchens-201201

It's hard for me to have a strong opinion on either side, but it seems important to have the conversation.

[doctorcoug]

Dementia, terminally ill with cancer, only nods for responses. Goes to a hospital and ends up on a vent. Truly tragic. Must be scared of death, because sounds like her quality of life sucks.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7BM1FI20111223?irpc=932

[Donuthole]

Dementia, terminally ill with cancer, only nods for responses. Goes to a hospital and ends up on a vent. Truly tragic. Must be scared of death, because sounds like her quality of life sucks.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...11223?irpc=932

Excellent. Looks like this is going to become doctorcoug's official "Look how silly this person is for thinking they can beat the odds, too bad they're not as smart as any medical student" thread.

[doctorcoug]

Excellent. Looks like this is going to become doctorcoug's official "Look how silly this person is for thinking they can beat the odds, too bad they're not as smart as any medical student" thread.

Goodbye. You are my first ignore.

[Viking]

Moving to a town of less than 3,000 people is how doctors die.

[Donuthole]

Goodbye. You are my first ignore.

I'm honored. I'd ignore you, but your drivel is entertaining. So you've got that going for you, which is nice.