Capitalism has never worked..

[il Padrino Ute]

according to Obama, it doesn't work and it has never worked. I'll just post this video of him saying this and let you folks decide if I'm still wrong about Obama's politics:

[YOUTUBE]9qmj4trja7w[/YOUTUBE]

I'm too pissed to continue with this thread, as I took under advisement woot's suggestion about my tone a while back.

[Non Sequitur]

I'm pretty sure you know that's not what he's saying. He's talking about unfettered capitalism. And he's absolutely correct.

[TripletDaddy]

EPU, I agree that you should stop posting about this stuff.

[SeattleUte]

EPU, I agree that you should stop posting about this stuff.

Who is EPU?

[cowboy]

I've been thinking a lot about capitalism vs. socialism lately. The problem with capitalism is that it creates a winner, who can then squash competition. As long as it is regulated such that fair competition can take place, it is still the fastest and most efficient means to grow an economy and enrich a country.

What gives capitalism a bad name is not capitalism at all, but cronyism. With cronyism, companies succeed based on who they know, their political pull, and a myriad of other factors entirely unrelated to their actual performance and efficiency. Cronyism saved Goldman, while it left Lehman to wolves. It made Buffet's rail play a success, and it's the reason that their are far more lobbyists than elected officials in Washington.

The problem I see with cronyism is that there is almost always a government component, and it usually involves protectionism. Unions want to protect their own, so they lobby for government contracts to require union workers, even though non-union workers can do the job more efficiently and get paid just as well. In Buffet's case, blocking the Keystone pipeline and the most recent one in North Dakota leaves rail as the only way to transport oil to the coast, even though pipelines are safer and far more cost effective. Hell, Oregon legislators even convinced people that they weren't competent enough to pump their own gas so they could protect the jobs of gas station attendants.

Ironically, and especially this year, I have personally seen more corruption and cronyism in the federal government than in any private enterprise. I've seen government agencies break laws to award contracts to their favorite applicant, or to avoid awarding applicants they just don't like. I've seen federal employee put a perfectly good private company almost completely out of business because he prefers to award research contracts to universities and minority owned entities. And I've seen a federal agency look the other way when an individual has been in violation of permitted use on federal land for over ten years. This does not even consider all the news stories of special interests getting their way against all common sense just because of their ideology. So, the question is, what makes us think cronyism will by less prolific under socialism?

If anything, I would expect cronyism to be worse in a highly regulated or socialized economy. Bureaucrats in every other country aren't even shy about being for sale to the highest bidder. I wouldn't expect anything quite that bad in the US, but the fact is that the more regulatory hoops there are, the more chance there is for someone who knows the right person to get a leg up in the competition. Because the efficiency that competition breeds results in greater productivity and cheaper goods and services, any time the less efficient but well connected company wins, our economy loses.

At least when the market picks winners, it picks them on their merits. My personal experience with the government is that is not even close to the standard operating procedure.

[Omaha 680]

Cowboy, your post reminded me of Phil Donohue's interview of Milton Friedman. Particularly the part where Friedman asks "what is greed?". I am not a militantly miltonite as I once was, but I am still closer to his (and your?) worldview than a socialist one.

Do they [American Presidents] choose their appointees based on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self interest is nobler somehow than economic self interest? You know I think you're taking a lot of things for granted. And just tell me where are you going to find these angels who are going to organize society for us?

[Topper]

Cowboy, your post reminded me of Phil Donohue's interview of Milton Friedman. Particularly the part where Friedman asks "what is greed?". I am not a militantly miltonite as I once was, but I am still closer to his (and your?) worldview than a socialist one.

Milton was the absolute best speaking proponent for capitalism.

[old_gregg]

Cronyism saved Goldman, while it left Lehman to wolves.

lol knock it off. you have no idea what you're talking about.

[creekster]

lol knock it off. you have no idea what you're talking about.

I have no idea why you say this. If you're right, prove it. Ot at least explain it. Otherwise you sound ignorant.

[cowboy]

Cowboy, your post reminded me of Phil Donohue's interview of Milton Friedman. Particularly the part where Friedman asks "what is greed?". I am not a militantly miltonite as I once was, but I am still closer to his (and your?) worldview than a socialist one.
]

That was one of the best interviews ever. Free markets get a bad rap because of bubbles and bursts, but I think bubbles are more a keynsian effect than a free market one. Also, crony capitalism is not capitalism, and not representative of free markets. BTW, Goldman absolutely was saved because of who they were and who they knew.

[Non Sequitur]

Cowboy, your post reminded me of Phil Donohue's interview of Milton Friedman. Particularly the part where Friedman asks "what is greed?". I am not a militantly miltonite as I once was, but I am still closer to his (and your?) worldview than a socialist one.

When I was young, I was a Milton Friedman fanboy. The older I got, the more I realized how ridiculous he was. Our country is worse off because of him.

[cowboy]

When I was young, I was a Milton Friedman fanboy. The older I got, the more I realized how ridiculous he was. Our country is worse off because of him.

I would like to know why you think this.

[Omaha 680]

When I was young, I was a Milton Friedman fanboy. The older I got, the more I realized how ridiculous he was. Our country is worse off because of him.

Sounds like you swung from one oversimplified extreme to the opposite.

[CardiacCoug]

I like the way Friedman knows he has just pwned Phil, left him speechless so he pays him a compliment by saying "I don't even trust you to do that." Good stuff.

[Non Sequitur]

I would like to know why you think this.

Looking at Trumps current appointments, it's clear that our country will be run by big oil for the foreseeable future. Does the market keep big oil in check? No, the market is whimpering in the corner. I work for one of the largest IT companies in the world, a company that has no soul and no compassion. It's a profit driven force. Market forces do not affect corporate giants, and they have not power to contain them. Power seeks only to accumulate more power and never relinquishes a bit of its power. Milton Friedman sold us the lie that if we only let corporate America proceed unfettered, the market will keep it in check. It's a lie, and Milton Friedman is the Messiah of that lie.