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And My Anger Was Kindled Against Them

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  • And My Anger Was Kindled Against Them

    Up until now, I've been patient with the politicians and their debt ceiling debate. I've viewed it as typical political jockeying. Political games. A little fun game of chicken.

    But tonight I crossed the tipping point. I was startled when I realized that inside of my gut there was a growing sensation that I could no longer ignore -- a tangible surge of anger. I have only rarely felt anger about our politics. But this is it. I feel it. And it is genuine, justified, and if not already, a sentiment that the rest of the nation must be feeling.

    Imagine if this were a disagreement between you and your wife over your family's finances and terrible consequences would come upon your family -- losing your house, for example, on August 2 -- absent a solution that is within your grasp. Would you bicker with your wife until July 28, with no real end in sight?

    But we're not talking about losing a home. We're talking about the good faith and credit of the American people. "WE THE PEOPLE" are the government of the United States. "We the people" formed this political union called the United States. And we the people are the guarantors of that government's debt.

    And I'm not even talking about the disastrous debt we're piling up and the utter failure to make any meaningful progress on addressing it. I'm just talking about meeting the debt obligations that are upon us now.

    And the solutions put forward by our representatives? A mere cut in the growth of discretionary spending -- that's all the Republican and Democratic plans are: keep it at the current baseline. So we're past the point of making any meaningful dent in our crushing and impossible debt burden. We're just trying to find a way to raise the debt ceiling with an equal measure of cuts in spending growth (forget about revenue increases) so we can pay our debts now.

    I'm angry at all parties. I'm angry at Obama for not getting behind the debt commission's proposal's when they came out many months ago. I'm angry at him for leading from behind, instead of leading from the front as a president should on the gravest issue facing our nation.

    My anger burns white hot for the Republicans who do not realize they've won in this little skirmish, but have utterly lost the war -- the war of opportunity to be gained, but is now lost. Of wanting it all, and so getting nothing.

    I'm angry that health care and social security are squeezing out education, infrastructure, environtmental protection, and a million other worthy government endevours. After health care spending, social security, and debt interest payments, there is NOTHING left -- it's all deficit spending. And those are only going to grow. There is literally nothing left. In fact, we can't even meet our health care, social security, and interest payments without major deficit spending. The numbers and figures are startling in their clarity. I want there to be less clarity, more room for disbelief. But there's no room for ignorance.

    I'm angry we made promises we can't keep, and lack the political institutions to re-align our commitments with our means.

    I'm angry at the politics of ineptitude.

    And I'm not so cynical to believe we have the politics we deserve. Americans -- good, hard-working people trying to raise their families with love and security -- deserve so much better.

    There will be some debt deal reached. But it will not be the debt deal we need. It will not be the debt deal we deserve. And it will be a debt deal arriving long past the date when responsibility, maturity, and seriousness expired.

    [/End Rant]
    Last edited by Levin; 07-28-2011, 07:32 PM.

  • #2
    Something also became clear to me: we won't recover any sort of fiscal sanity without our health care system going bankrupt.

    There needs to be a tramautic break between expectations and reality.

    No more millionaire doctors.

    No more for profit hospitals.

    No more billion dollar medical inventions.

    No more unrealistic expectations from patients.

    Health, in essence, will become a public good priced and paid for at a price the nation can afford.

    But to get to that point, the boil must be popped; the cancer removed; and the scalpel is bankruptcy for the medical establishment and the dashed hopes of the American populace thinking and expecting they can continue to consume health services according to their unbridled desires.
    Last edited by Levin; 07-28-2011, 07:47 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Levin View Post
      Something also became clear to me: we won't recover any sort of fiscal sanity without our health care system going bankrupt.

      There needs to be a tramautic break between expectations and reality.

      No more millionaire doctors.


      No more for profit hospitals.

      No more billion dollar medical inventions.

      No more unrealistic expectations from patients.

      Health, in essence, will become a public good priced and paid for at a price the nation can afford.

      But to get to that point, the boil must be popped; the cancer removed; and the scalpel is bankruptcy for the medical establishment and the dashed hopes of the American populace thinking and expecting they can continue to consume health services according to their unbridled desires.
      Oh brother. I agree with the overall sentiment that health care spending is out of control, but "millionaire doctors" are not the problem.

      Have you ever been hospitalized or had a family member hospitalized? If you had, you would see what percentage of the bill goes for physician services and what goes for everything else.

      When my son was in the hospital a few years ago the hospital charges were $80K and maybe $1500 went to the doctors.

      And the doctors that make the most amount of money for the least amount of work aren't dumb enough to be billing insurance or Medicare. They are plastic surgeons or dermatologists or Lasik doctors who just take cash.
      Last edited by CardiacCoug; 07-28-2011, 08:09 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
        Oh brother. I agree with the overall sentiment that health care spending is out of control, but "millionaire doctors" are not the problem.

        Have you ever been hospitalized or had a family member hospitalized? If you had, you would see what percentage of the bill goes for physician services and what goes for everything else.

        When my son was in the hospital a few years ago the hospital charges were $80K and maybe $1500 went to the doctors.

        And the doctors that make the most amount of money for the least amount of work aren't dumb enough to be billing insurance or Medicare. They are plastic surgeons or dermatologists or Lasik doctors who just take cash.
        You know I've had members of my family hospitalized.

        Many doctors become millionaires (I'm not talking making a million per year).

        In the world of realistic affordability, doctors will have to take a big hit. There's no way around it.

        Especially when we get off of the mind-bogglingly expensive pay-per-procedure model.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Levin View Post
          Something also became clear to me: we won't recover any sort of fiscal sanity without our health care system going bankrupt.

          There needs to be a tramautic break between expectations and reality.

          No more millionaire doctors.

          No more for profit hospitals.

          No more billion dollar medical inventions.

          No more unrealistic expectations from patients.

          Health, in essence, will become a public good priced and paid for at a price the nation can afford.

          But to get to that point, the boil must be popped; the cancer removed; and the scalpel is bankruptcy for the medical establishment and the dashed hopes of the American populace thinking and expecting they can continue to consume health services according to their unbridled desires.
          Please tell me which residency I need to get to become a millionaire doctor. At this point I'm hoping my $300k education gets me a job making more than 100k.

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          • #6
            Boom! Great first post, Levin. We share many of the same thoughts on this matter. Though I do think a big-firm D.C. lawyer should probably shut up about what other people make.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Slim View Post
              Please tell me which residency I need to get to become a millionaire doctor. At this point I'm hoping my $300k education gets me a job making more than 100k.
              Took me about ten seconds to find these that seem to fit the bill.

              http://www.profilesdatabase.com/phys...pensation.html

              But if you expect to make 100K in residency, can't help you there.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                Boom! Great first post, Levin. We share many of the same thoughts on this matter. Though I do think a big-firm D.C. lawyer should probably shut up about what other people make.
                I'll keep talking so long as I'm paying for it. My clients can bitch all they want about how much they pay me.

                And really the point of the post is that we are all paying for the consequences of out-of-control health care spending in so many, many ways.

                I regret for even raising the old, tired debate on physician salaries.

                Right now it's about the helpless anger at the political incompetence of our leaders to address the problems we face.
                Last edited by Levin; 07-28-2011, 08:34 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Levin View Post
                  You know I've had members of my family hospitalized.

                  Many doctors become millionaires (I'm not talking making a million per year).

                  In the world of realistic affordability, doctors will have to take a big hit. There's no way around it.

                  Especially when we get off of the mind-bogglingly expensive pay-per-procedure model.
                  Take a look at the bill next time.

                  If you undergo a life-saving operation in the middle of the night, usually the doctor collects around $1K or less from insurance while the hospital will collect $30K+.

                  Not to mention that most doctors do at least 6-8 more years of education/training than a lawyer to have the privilege to collect an insurance payment for their services, assuming the patient has insurance. Obviously many patients don't have insurance.

                  You lawyers have a lot of room to talk. When was the last time you stayed up all night doing pro bono work? And then you have the balls to call out "millionaire doctors."

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                  • #10
                    Everyone complains about attorney and physician fees until they save your ass.
                    "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                    The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                      Take a look at the bill next time.

                      If you undergo a life-saving operation in the middle of the night, usually the doctor collects around $1K or less from insurance while the hospital will collect $30K+.

                      Not to mention that most doctors do at least 6-8 more years of education/training than a lawyer to have the privilege to collect an insurance payment for their services, assuming the patient has insurance. Obviously many patients don't have insurance.

                      You lawyers have a lot of room to talk. When was the last time you stayed up all night doing pro bono work? And then you have the balls to call out "millionaire doctors."
                      There's no getting around the fact that doctors must earn less. I know that makes you uncomfortable. But it's unavoidable. Looking at the table of salaries I linked to makes it hard for me to feel any sympathy on the salary issue. I certainly feel gratitude for doctors, but not sympathy for their salaries.

                      But this is really all I needed to write:

                      Originally posted by Levin View Post
                      I'll keep talking so long as I'm paying for it. My clients can bitch all they want about how much they pay me.

                      I regret for even raising the old, tired debate on physician salaries.

                      Right now it's about the helpless anger at the political incompetence of our leaders to address the problems we face.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                        When was the last time you stayed up all night doing pro bono work? And then you have the balls to call out "millionaire doctors."
                        Forgot to say that this question proves your ignorance of the many lawyers out there doing incredible pro bono work . . . much of it in the middle of the night.

                        I've stayed up all night only once doing pro bono work (a brief), but I know there are many others who pull all nighters to meet unforgiving legal deadlines on behalf of pro bono clients.

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                        • #13
                          Nice inflammatory rhetoric there, "millionaire doctors". Can you find one specialty on that chart that even averages close to a million?
                          "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                          "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                          - SeattleUte

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Levin View Post
                            There's no getting around the fact that doctors must earn less. I know that makes you uncomfortable. But it's unavoidable.
                            What the hell are you talking about?

                            The doctors who just charge cash like eye surgeons, plastic surgeons, dermatologists etc. generally make MORE (certainly they make more per hour worked) than doctors who collect from insurance.

                            Are you saying that it's unavoidable that doctors who take cash payments from patients need to earn less money?

                            Maybe MORE insurance money needs to got to doctors (especially I would argue more money needs to go to primary care doctors) and LESS insurance money needs to go to hospitals, drug companies, device companies, etc.

                            I had a patient come in for an outpatient procedure recently. He was physically inside the hospital for 5 hours (8 AM to 1 PM). The hospital billed him $30K for the procedure (no physician fees included) -- $100 per minute from the time he stepped into the hospital until he stepped out of the hospital. That is where health care spending is out of control.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                              What the hell are you talking about?
                              I had a patient come in for an outpatient procedure recently. He was physically inside the hospital for 5 hours (8 AM to 1 PM). The hospital billed him $30K for the procedure (no physician fees included) -- $100 per minute from the time he stepped into the hospital until he stepped out of the hospital. That is where health care spending is out of control.
                              Ridiculous. Pathetic. Sad.
                              I'm like LeBron James.
                              -mpfunk

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