Public Education IS National Security

[RobinFinderson]

Why don't more people discuss the failure of our Public Education system in the context of national security? I think the fact that we are raising up a generation of morons is more worrisome to the long term prospects of the USA than anything coming from the Middle East.

[BlueHair]

Why don't more people discuss the failure of our Public Education system in the context of national security? I think the fact that we are raising up a generation of morons is more worrisome to the long term prospects of the USA than anything coming from the Middle East.

Our first mistake was allowing the government to educate our children.

[Guest]

I think the fact that we are raising up a generation of morons is more worrisome to the long term prospects of the USA

Coincidently...

I doubt there has ever been a time in this nation's history when marijuana has been more widely accepted

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=3068

[kccougar]

Our first mistake was allowing the government to educate our children.

But we certainly seem anxious to let it run our health care system.

[KillerDog]

I struggle to understand what is wrong with our school system. It is clear to me that it doesn't work and that many are not getting a good education but what is the cause? Once we can establish the cause, maybe we can figure out a solution. Until then, we can just bitch and moan about it.

[Donuthole]

I struggle to understand what is wrong with our school system. It is clear to me that it doesn't work and that many are not getting a good education but what is the cause? Once we can establish the cause, maybe we can figure out a solution. Until then, we can just bitch and moan about it.

One of the primary causes, IMO, is that there is no consequence for not taking studies seriously. Unlike private schools or schools in foreign countries, you can fail all your classes and still have a seat the next year. Harsh as it may seem, there need to be more cut-off points, i.e. points at which you get booted from the public system if you aren't progressing.

Another cause is the role of extra-curricular activities. They are no longer used to "round out" our children, but have morphed into the driving force of public schooling, in way too many instances.

A third cause is the NEA and other educators unions.

[kccougar]

I struggle to understand what is wrong with our school system. It is clear to me that it doesn't work and that many are not getting a good education but what is the cause? Once we can establish the cause, maybe we can figure out a solution. Until then, we can just bitch and moan about it.

Wait until you have kids enrolled.

My sixth grader watched Disney's Hercules at school to learn Greek mythology.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I struggle to understand what is wrong with our school system. It is clear to me that it doesn't work and that many are not getting a good education but what is the cause? Once we can establish the cause, maybe we can figure out a solution. Until then, we can just bitch and moan about it.

Lumping in the idiots and lazy kids with the bright ones and hard workers. They should have two tiers of high school- one to train auto mechanics and plumbers, and another one for kids that want to go on to college. Grading needs to be a lot more difficult and anything below a C average means you should be held back. End any kind of incentives that force teachers to pass kids that shouldn't be continuing on.

[Solon]

Why don't more people discuss the failure of our Public Education system in the context of national security? I think the fact that we are raising up a generation of morons is more worrisome to the long term prospects of the USA than anything coming from the Middle East.

I blame it on the gay movement's attacks on the family.

Seriously, though, there is a variety of factors at work. Funding (but not in the right places), consumerism, technology - and the notion that expensive technology=progress, and the overall democratization of education. More people are in school now than ever before. It stands to reason that there are more dummies too - at least in high school and college.

[kccougar]

I struggle to understand what is wrong with our school system. It is clear to me that it doesn't work and that many are not getting a good education but what is the cause? Once we can establish the cause, maybe we can figure out a solution. Until then, we can just bitch and moan about it.

1. Teacher's unions that protect (and in some ways promote) poor performance.

2. General sentiment throughout society that we cannot allow failure. Dumb down the curriculum to the point that no one does.

[Soccermom]

1. Teacher's unions that protect (and in some ways promote) poor performance.

2. General sentiment throughout society that we cannot allow failure. Dumb down the curriculum to the point that no one does.

I think those reasons are definitely a part of the problem. I think some of the requirements placed on teachers can make it difficult as well though. In CA, with standards based education, teachers have to make sure students meet certain grade level requirements and perform well on the STAR tests. I think it translates to the really bright students getting bored because the teachers must bring everyone up to the particular grade level they are teaching.

[RobinFinderson]

Donut, CMBF and Solon all make good points.

I've reached the point where I think we need to fundamentally redefine the purpose of public education. The current liberal arts approach is failing to accomplish its intended goal, and I agree with CMBF that mixing the kids who have no invested interest in a liberal arts outcome with those who do is a big contributor to the failure of the current system. Faith teaches at a South Central high school that has a lot of discipline problems with many of the students. It really pisses me off how so many good students are being short changed by other students who just don't want to be in the classroom. But school funding is based on enrollment, so there are financial incentives to keep trouble-causing students in the classroom. The money interests tend to win, and the good students lose.

Solon's points about technology, consumerism and funding are spot on. Subject matter can't compete with the social interaction served up by technology and consumerism. I get it (I try not to think about what I might have done with all of my time on CUF).

I'm getting to the point where I think we need to try something radical. I would like to see a multi-approach education system where everyone starts off on a 'liberal arts' track, but later, either through preference or performance, chooses a trade track, an arts track, or a hard science track. There would also be a third kind of school for students with serious behavior and discipline issues. It would be sort of of a military school where students would actually live on the campus, far away from their friends and family, with limited access to the real world.

There would also be the option to home school.

If the US is going to remain competitive, it needs to get really serious about education, and I don't think that this seriousness can happen without a fundamental change in our definition of 'public education.'

[Jeff Lebowski]

1. Teacher's unions that protect (and in some ways promote) poor performance.

2. General sentiment throughout society that we cannot allow failure. Dumb down the curriculum to the point that no one does.

Where do your kids go to school? Based on our experience with the local public schools, I would strongly disagree with #2.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Donut, CMBF and Solon all make good points.

I've reached the point where I think we need to fundamentally redefine the purpose of public education. The current liberal arts approach is failing to accomplish its intended goal, and I agree with CMBF that mixing the kids who have no invested interest in a liberal arts outcome with those who do is a big contributor to the failure of the current system. Faith teaches at a South Central high school that has a lot of discipline problems with many of the students. It really pisses me off how so many good students are being short changed by other students who just don't want to be in the classroom. But school funding is based on enrollment, so there are financial incentives to keep trouble-causing students in the classroom. The money interests tend to win, and the good students lose.

Solon's points about technology, consumerism and funding are spot on. Subject matter can't compete with the social interaction served up by technology and consumerism. I get it (I try not to think about what I might have done with all of my time on CUF).

I'm getting to the point where I think we need to try something radical. I would like to see a multi-approach education system where everyone starts off on a 'liberal arts' track, but later, either through preference or performance, chooses a trade track, an arts track, or a hard science track. There would also be a third kind of school for students with serious behavior and discipline issues. It would be sort of of a military school where students would actually live on the campus, far away from their friends and family, with limited access to the real world.

There would also be the option to home school.

If the US is going to remain competitive, it needs to get really serious about education, and I don't think that this seriousness can happen without a fundamental change in our definition of 'public education.'

You should watch Season 4 of the Wire. It goes into the public education problems that the urban areas face. Basically, the wild, undisciplined kids ruin it for all the kids. Take those kids out and put them in a more specialized classroom so the other kids can do better overall.

[The_Tick]

I like to pipe in on the teaching ones...

No Child Left Behind was one of the worst pieces of legistlation to ever come out of the government. It does not allow for a child to be held back at all. It really stands for No Child Held Back. Whether you pass the test or not you advance.

Because of budget issues in California, the district my wife works for cancelled the GATE program immediatly. Not at the end of the semester or school year, right now. They announced it last week on Wednesday and it ended on Wednesday. Any of the kids that showed great apptitude in math, science, or English were sent right back to the regular classes.

I am a true blooded American (I love football, but my next two favorite sports are hockey and then soccer. I flew to Toronto to visit the Hockey HOF)....

But we need to get over our superiority complex.

Where have we gone wrong? We should accept the Metric system. We aren't too good for it, we are just the only ones to not convert.

Europe/Australia have it figured out. We have friends in London that have children the same age as our oldest. They took tests a few years ago and showed various skills/traits for specific trades. 3 kids in total. The girl is going to school to be a nurse, and her HS education and then University are focused on that. One of the boys is going to be a mechanic. The other is going to school to be an Engineer. But their HS focus is towards that profession.

Are they locked into these jobs? No. But their education will make them competent for employment when they graduate. The mechanic can finish school, and if he wants to be an Engineer he can go to additional school for that.

This is something we need to get behind. Some kids aren't going to be Dr.'s, they are going to be Diesil mechanics. Parents need to deal with it.