Today the war on drugs turned 50

[Borderline Divine]

Is this the biggest waste of America's resources ever?

"Marijuana. The drug that makes teenage boys drive slow" P.J. O'Rourk "

[DapperDan]

Just think how much more obese America would be with the evil mary jane free to cast her spell of "the munchies" on an unsuspecting populace.

[creekster]

Is this the biggest waste of America's resources ever?

"Marijuana. The drug that makes teenage boys drive slow" P.J. O'Rourk "

50? It started in 1961 before the war onpverty got going with LBJ? Are you sure about this?

[UtahDan]

I think we ought to distinguish between the war on drugs and the war on pot. The war on pot has been a massive drain on the resources of law enforcement, the court, prisons, etc. that is not justified when balanced against the harm it is trying to address.

On the other hand, if you back out the pot component, the war on drugs such as coke, heroine, crystal meth, pcp, etc., even if it is a "finger in the dam" sort of fight, definitely earns its keep, so to speak.

[wuapinmon]

On the other hand, if you back out the pot component, the war on drugs such as coke, heroine, crystal meth, pcp, etc., even if it is a "finger in the dam" sort of fight, definitely earns its keep, so to speak.

I disagree. The War on Drugs, any drugs, is far too costly in economic and human terms than just letting people kill themselves.

The only controlled substances should be the non habit-forming ones that could actually hurt people if used in ignorance, like too many BP meds or anti-depressants.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I disagree. The War on Drugs, any drugs, is far too costly in economic and human terms than just letting people kill themselves.

The only controlled substances should be the non habit-forming ones that could actually hurt people if used in ignorance, like too many BP meds or anti-depressants.

You are misinformed here. What is the consequence of taking too much lisinopril? Zoloft? Prozac?

And as far as other illegal drugs, they kill other people besides the users. DWI from narc's, etc is just as dangerous to the public as alcohol.

[Borderline Divine]

For creekster

http://www.idpc.net/policy-advocacy/global-advocacy/global-drug-control-system

[pellegrino]

I would say that the war in Vietnam, the war(s) in Iraq, and Afghanistan have been a bigger drain on resources than the war on drugs, especially the war on pot.

[creekster]

http://www.idpc.net/policy-advocacy/...control-system

Hmmm. I dont think most people associate the "war on drugs" with that UN convention. I think the phrase wasnt used until the 70s in this country, and it had no realtionship to that convention. But I could easily be wrong.

[wuapinmon]

You are misinformed here. What is the consequence of taking too much lisinopril? Zoloft? Prozac?

And as far as other illegal drugs, they kill other people besides the users. DWI from narc's, etc is just as dangerous to the public as alcohol.

I'm assuming that you don't want to limit alcohol availability, so the collateral deaths are the civil costs of liberty. I'd rather live in a state that does not nanny me. I think that employers should still be able to screen for drug users, and not hire them if they use cocaine, crack, heroin, etc. But, that shouldn't be a reason to continue this ridiculous war on something that will never end. Mexico is being torn in two as we speak, and is less than 10 years away from absolute Civil War, again, if something doesn't give. The narcotraficantes are making so much money right now, that they can fund private armies. A novel I read the other day quoted one of them as saying, "¡Cuán pobres son los ricos de este país!" (trans. "How poor are the rich people of this country!"). Imagine how our country would react if 64,000 people were killed in drug wars on our streets each year. Well, we're probably close already, but since they are mostly young male minorities, they don't get the press that white deaths would probably garner.

As to your first statement, I am misinformed, but I'm not really convinced that any maintenance drug needs an Rx, but I assume that physicians would fight this tooth and nail. Lisinopril isn't get-high drug, and if you take too much, it can crash blood pressure, produce a nagging cough, give you insanely powerful paresthesias, and insomnia....only one of which is potentially fatal, though I'm assuming that it can cause hepatic problems. So, I'd say the value of the Rx there is the benefit of keeping things that can hurt your liver out of ignorant people's hands. But, then again, I don't think we should make Tylenol an Rx just because some people push 8g a day.

[Borderline Divine]

Kinda funny

http://drogriporter.hu/en/dli_short

[Jarid in Cedar]

I'm assuming that you don't want to limit alcohol availability, so the collateral deaths are the civil costs of liberty. I'd rather live in a state that does not nanny me. I think that employers should still be able to screen for drug users, and not hire them if they use cocaine, crack, heroin, etc. But, that shouldn't be a reason to continue this ridiculous war on something that will never end. Mexico is being torn in two as we speak, and is less than 10 years away from absolute Civil War, again, if something doesn't give. The narcotraficantes are making so much money right now, that they can fund private armies. A novel I read the other day quoted one of them as saying, "¡Cuán pobres son los ricos de este país!" (trans. "How poor are the rich people of this country!"). Imagine how our country would react if 64,000 people were killed in drug wars on our streets each year. Well, we're probably close already, but since they are mostly young male minorities, they don't get the press that white deaths would probably garner. .

As they say, your civil liberties stop short of you harming me. Frankly, people who use recreational drugs(I stop short of including marijuana in this list) are very likely to harm others as they are themselves. As far as alcohol is concerned, there are restrictions on who can imbibe, how much they can imbibe and still operate moving vehicles, how much they can imbibe and be present in public. By your position, it should be perfectly ok for a 14 year old to drink to excess and drive a car. Why should the state impose on his civil liberty to kill himself?

As to your first statement, I am misinformed, but I'm not really convinced that any maintenance drug needs an Rx, but I assume that physicians would fight this tooth and nail. Lisinopril isn't get-high drug, and if you take too much, it can crash blood pressure, produce a nagging cough, give you insanely powerful paresthesias, and insomnia....only one of which is potentially fatal, though I'm assuming that it can cause hepatic problems. So, I'd say the value of the Rx there is the benefit of keeping things that can hurt your liver out of ignorant people's hands. But, then again, I don't think we should make Tylenol an Rx just because some people push 8g a day.

What about seizure medications? Or Coumadin? Or any other medication that has a narrow theraputic index? They are used as maintainence medications.

The real issue with why most medication are restricted to prescription is to avoid self diagnosing and treatment by people. If you look on the back of most OTC medications, there is a disclaimer that says "if your symptoms persist beyond 2 weeks, seek the counsel of a physician"(or similar wording.

Lisinipril itself is low risk if taken by the majority of the public, even in doses that are above recommended doses. However, if you have renal artery stenosis, lisinopril(and others in its class) can cause renal failure. The moral of the story is that you can find out by yourself that you have high blood pressure, but do you have secondary hypertension? Do you know what your creatinine clearance is? Do you know that hyperaldosteronism is the cause(and that regular BP meds are not going to help)? These are the reasons that you have to see a physician to get treatment for your hypertension.

[wuapinmon]

As they say, your civil liberties stop short of you harming me. Frankly, people who use recreational drugs(I stop short of including marijuana in this list) are very likely to harm others as they are themselves. As far as alcohol is concerned, there are restrictions on who can imbibe, how much they can imbibe and still operate moving vehicles, how much they can imbibe and be present in public. By your position, it should be perfectly ok for a 14 year old to drink to excess and drive a car. Why should the state impose on his civil liberty to kill himself?

I think it should be illegal to operate a vehicle while impaired. The risk to others is far greater in that scenario, enough to warrant state intervention for the privilege of using state-maintained roadways in an automobile, and to protect the civil liberties and rights of others. However, I don't think that using heroin at home is a clear and present danger to others, anymore than getting piss drunk at home is.

What about seizure medications? Or Coumadin? Or any other medication that has a narrow theraputic index? They are used as maintainence medications.

The real issue with why most medication are restricted to prescription is to avoid self diagnosing and treatment by people. If you look on the back of most OTC medications, there is a disclaimer that says "if your symptoms persist beyond 2 weeks, seek the counsel of a physician"(or similar wording.

Lisinipril itself is low risk if taken by the majority of the public, even in doses that are above recommended doses. However, if you have renal artery stenosis, lisinopril(and others in its class) can cause renal failure. The moral of the story is that you can find out by yourself that you have high blood pressure, but do you have secondary hypertension? Do you know what your creatinine clearance is? Do you know that hyperaldosteronism is the cause(and that regular BP meds are not going to help)? These are the reasons that you have to see a physician to get treatment for your hypertension.

No argument here from me that it's crazy to self-diagnose and self-medicate like most people can in the 3rd world. You can buy meloxicam and Cipro OTC in Costa Rica, whether it's legal or not is irrelevant; I was never ever asked for an Rx there. I even bought a bottle of lidocaine OTC in 1993. Not knowing where the nerve was in my big toe didn't help me numb it to remove my ingrown toenail myself. It's a wonder I didn't stop my heart. Youth!

So, my initial assertion that the Rx on maintenance drugs was to combat ignorance is in-line with what you've demonstrated very clearly in your post; Rx protects us from our own ignorance. I'm not going to take meloxicam every day without getting my liver function checked. The medicine even says that on the package. OTC could say the same thing, but unless you deny people access to the medicine, they're not going go spend the money and time with a physician to find out that they're most likely fine.

As it relates to drugs like say Vicodin, which is habit forming, and thus abused for its side effects, I just don't think that it's worth the effort to police something like its misuse at the cost of lives, destruction of property, families, and spent capital. I get the feeling it's far cheaper, socially and economically, to deal with the fallout of relatively unfettered access to it.

Am I still off-base, or do you see any merit to my argument?

[Clark Addison]

Imagine how our country would react if 64,000 people were killed in drug wars on our streets each year. Well, we're probably close already, but since they are mostly young male minorities, they don't get the press that white deaths would probably garner.

There are about 15,000 murders per year in the U.S.

[Danimal]

We spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year incarcerating people on substance-related charges. Depending on the state and facility, it costs nearly $30k to incarcerate 1 person for 1 year. Court mandated treatment for substance use is much, much cheaper. Stop throwing people into the slammer and start mandating treatment. We'll save a ton of money and some people might actually get better, unlike in prison.