Child abuse case to infants: Statement from Grandmother

[dabrockster]

Warning the video is not graphic but you can hear the infants screaming from being suffocated.. I did not expect to hear that and it was pretty unbearable and the family members had to leave the court due to their anger.. I can imagine..

I agree with the grandmother. The way this woman shows no remorse or guilt is startling:

"Anybody who could suffocate a baby who is 18 months old, on at least four separate occasions, should be in jail for murder, not us here trying to decide whether it's a misdemeanor or felony count," Jones said. "Thank God for the video camera or there would have been children who were dead in that house and if she doesn't go to jail there will be children who die in her hands."

http://www.onntv.com/live/content/on...l.html?sid=102

[Eddie]

I used to do child abuse investigations. Most of the time the folks I interacted with were decent enough, just with problems or a lack of skills or resources.

Dirty houses were pretty common. Sure, I wouldn't want to live like that. But I can understand sometimes why a single mom with three kids who is working 2 minimum wage jobs and 60-70 hrs a week would let the housekeeping at home slip. To be honest, I can see why someone in that situation might be tempted to escape into alcohol or drugs.

There were always the parents who took spanking too far. Going to spank your kids? Fine - but if you insist, please use your hand instead of some other instrument so that you can tell how hard you are hitting and how much it might be hurting.

I ran into one 4 year-old with a black and blue backside where his dad had hit him with a yardstick. Turns out they were finishing their basement and dad caught him using a razor knife to cut on some live wires going to an outlet he had installed earlier that week. Thinking of what could've happened (either by the razor or the live wire) scared the crap out of the dad and he over-reacted. I think as much as anything dad was dealing with the guilt of leaving the knife where the kid could get it.

Lot of stuff like that - one time incident when someone lost it. In Utah, only about a third of the investigations result in a finding of abuse/neglect. So 2/3 of the time it is just clarifying what happened and offering services if it seems like the family could use some help to keep things from getting worse.

I had one case where a step mom shook a little 2 year-old girl to the point that the tissue connecting the two hemispheres of the brain tore and they separated, she finally stopped when the back of the girls head hit a bedpost. The Dr. spent a couple of hours in surgery trying to save her, unsuccessfully.

I got to go in and see her in the hospital morgue with the police. Devistating. I hugged my kids good that night.

There are some sick people out there. I often wonder what could've been done to intervene earlier in some of these cases. How could we have known? And is this person a true sociopath, or what did it take to get them to reach their breaking point?

Sad stuff.

[dabrockster]

I used to do child abuse investigations. Most of the time the folks I interacted with were decent enough, just with problems or a lack of skills or resources.

Dirty houses were pretty common. Sure, I wouldn't want to live like that. But I can understand sometimes why a single mom with three kids who is working 2 minimum wage jobs and 60-70 hrs a week would let the housekeeping at home slip. To be honest, I can see why someone in that situation might be tempted to escape into alcohol or drugs.

There were always the parents who took spanking too far. Going to spank your kids? Fine - but if you insist, please use your hand instead of some other instrument so that you can tell how hard you are hitting and how much it might be hurting.

I ran into one 4 year-old with a black and blue backside where his dad had hit him with a yardstick. Turns out they were finishing their basement and dad caught him using a razor knife to cut on some live wires going to an outlet he had installed earlier that week. Thinking of what could've happened (either by the razor or the live wire) scared the crap out of the dad and he over-reacted. I think as much as anything dad was dealing with the guilt of leaving the knife where the kid could get it.

Lot of stuff like that - one time incident when someone lost it. In Utah, only about a third of the investigations result in a finding of abuse/neglect. So 2/3 of the time it is just clarifying what happened and offering services if it seems like the family could use some help to keep things from getting worse.

I had one case where a step mom shook a little 2 year-old girl to the point that the tissue connecting the two hemispheres of the brain tore and they separated, she finally stopped when the back of the girls head hit a bedpost. The Dr. spent a couple of hours in surgery trying to save her, unsuccessfully.

I got to go in and see her in the hospital morgue with the police. Devistating. I hugged my kids good that night.

There are some sick people out there. I often wonder what could've been done to intervene earlier in some of these cases. How could we have known? And is this person a true sociopath, or what did it take to get them to reach their breaking point?

Sad stuff.

I cannot imagine having to see that little 2 year old girl in the morgue... Seeing my sweet little girl (now 3 months) and thinking about how these other infants are just as sweet, innocent, and needing someone to care for them, makes me emotional just thinking about it.. Of course, my emotions are running high these days...

[KillerDog]

I did an internship with the Guardian ad Litem's office in law school. One of our client's came by to visit with his dad. We did our standard interview (I sat in) and the boy told us matter of factly how the dad had gotten mad at him and threw him into a book shelf. He showed me the scars. He was 9 y.o. The bookshelf incident was a new report to add onto the reports that resulted in the supervised visits. The Guardian ad Litem had to leave for court so I had to supervise the visitation. I found out then that I was not equipped for that line of work. I spent the entire visitation staring at the guy ominously enough that he started getting antsy and asked me "What?!!!" Luckily, the GaL came back and took over and the guy complained to her about me staring at him instead of complaining to her about me kicking the shit out of him.

[MMead]

Only suitable for minors?:

Only suitable for minors?:

Schoolchildrens' "spanking" related injuries (WARNING - These images may be deeply disturbing to some viewers. Do not open this page if children are present).
http://www.nospank.net/injuredkids.pdf

Reasonable and moderate? You decide.
(WARNING - This sound recording may be deeply disturbing to some listeners. Do not open this file if children are within listening range).
http://nospank.net/prj-006.wav


People used to think it was necessary to "spank" adult members of the community, college students, military trainees, and prisoners. In some countries they still do. In our country, it is considered assault and battery (sexual battery at that) if a person over the age of 18 is "spanked", but only if over the age of 18.


Recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak
http://www.nospank.net/pt2010.pdf

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson
http://nospank.net/sdsc2.pdf

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor MD and Adah Maurer PhD
http://nospank.net/taylor.htm


Most current research:

Spanking Kids Increases Risk of Sexual Problems
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2008/feb/lw28spanking.cfm

Use of Spanking for 3-Year-Old Children and Associated Intimate Partner Aggression or Violence
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ract/126/3/415

Spanking Can Make Children More Aggressive Later
http://tulane.edu/news/releases/pr_03122010.cfm

Spanking Children Can Lower IQ
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2009/sept/lw25straus.cfm

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child "spanking" isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
American Psychological Association,
Center For Effective Discipline,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
United Methodist Church
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child.

In 31 nations, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child. The US also has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

The US states with the highest crime rates, poorest academic performance, highest obesity rates and health problems, and largest welfare caseloads are also the ones with the highest rates of child corporal punishment.

Of all the things prison inmates lacked in their upbringing, "spanking" certainly wasn't one of them.

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-battering instills virtue.

[Eddie]

Only suitable for minors?:

Schoolchildrens' "spanking" related injuries (WARNING - These images may be deeply disturbing to some viewers. Do not open this page if children are present).
http://www.nospank.net/injuredkids.pdf

Reasonable and moderate? You decide.
(WARNING - This sound recording may be deeply disturbing to some listeners. Do not open this file if children are within listening range).
http://nospank.net/prj-006.wav


People used to think it was necessary to "spank" adult members of the community, college students, military trainees, and prisoners. In some countries they still do. In our country, it is considered assault and battery (sexual battery at that) if a person over the age of 18 is "spanked", but only if over the age of 18.


Recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak
http://www.nospank.net/pt2010.pdf

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson
http://nospank.net/sdsc2.pdf

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor MD and Adah Maurer PhD
http://nospank.net/taylor.htm


Most current research:

Spanking Kids Increases Risk of Sexual Problems
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2008/feb/lw28spanking.cfm

Use of Spanking for 3-Year-Old Children and Associated Intimate Partner Aggression or Violence
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ract/126/3/415

Spanking Can Make Children More Aggressive Later
http://tulane.edu/news/releases/pr_03122010.cfm

Spanking Children Can Lower IQ
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2009/sept/lw25straus.cfm

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child "spanking" isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
American Psychological Association,
Center For Effective Discipline,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
United Methodist Church
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child.

In 31 nations, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child. The US also has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

The US states with the highest crime rates, poorest academic performance, highest obesity rates and health problems, and largest welfare caseloads are also the ones with the highest rates of child corporal punishment.

Of all the things prison inmates lacked in their upbringing, "spanking" certainly wasn't one of them.

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-battering instills virtue.

I hope you didn't join just so that you could post this. What little I know about the folks here lends me to believe that for the most part you are preaching to the choir.

[wuapinmon]

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-battering instills virtue.

"Simply?" You're going to dismiss 4,000 some-odd years of human behavior across multiple cultures and societies with "simply?" You've got advocacy groups' websites and press-releases without peer review or rebuttal to back up your opinion. How have "your" assertions been met by the academy upon review? Were they rejected, viewed as flawed, applauded. How do you respond to this article, from a reputable source?

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/25/us...ng.html?src=pm

[Lost Student]

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-battering instills virtue.

I have evidence that says otherwise. Specifically, the virtue of my kids going to bed is instilled by child-bottom-battering.