Confirmed: Jon Huntsman is a wanker

[Viking]

Huntsman is a lot like you.

DoucheBlue, I'm thrilled with that characterization.

[single tear streams down face]

[NorthwestUteFan]

It seems like rumors of Huntsman's jack-mormon-ness have been around a long time, long before he was being talked about as a presidential candidate.

My guess the rumors go back to the time he dropped out of high school to play keyboard in a band.

[scottie]

So why can't he simply be a non-believer who doesn't want or feel the need to cut all ties with his family and upbringing? His roots in the church run deep, so while he's probably rejected the doctrines, he holds on only as part of his culture and roots. He's still a Mormon in the way that a non-religious Jew is still a Jew. Its more ethnic and cultural than it is religious. I don't expect people who turn away from belief to come up with a manifesto disclaiming their former belief, or the beliefs of their family and friends.

That describes me very well.

[LA Ute]

First, I don't think he's necessarily being insincere, or slippery. Secondly, assuming he's essentially a lapsed Mormon i.e. a non-believer (I think he probably is), his position makes perfect sense considering his background.

His father, Sr., is currently a GA, right? Grandfather was a member of Q12. So why can't he simply be a non-believer who doesn't want or feel the need to cut all ties with his family and upbringing? His roots in the church run deep, so while he's probably rejected the doctrines, he holds on only as part of his culture and roots. He's still a Mormon in the way that a non-religious Jew is still a Jew.

If that's how he feels he ought to just come out and say it.

[oxcoug]

He's still a Mormon in the way that a non-religious Jew is still a Jew. Its more ethnic and cultural than it is religious.

You make some fair points, but this isn't really the case at all - being Jewish is first and foremost a matter of maternal descent, and secondarily a matter of cultural/communal assocation. There are secular, agnostic and even atheist Jews who are every bit as Jewish culturally as their Hasidic brethren. There is a communal culture in Judaism that lives outside of religious belief - the same simply isn't true of Mormons. Our communal identity is very much anchored in the practice of Mormon principles. A totally non-observant, non-believing secular Jew can walk into temple and be called into a minyan (the quorum required for a prayer service).

That might be changing incrementally for Mormons and I think it is - and to some extent I think it should - but it isn't anything like Jewishness in its non-religious and ethnic component. A majority of the global Jewish population is secular but still very much self-defines as Jewish.

[myboynoah]

If that's how he feels he ought to just come out and say it.

Yeah, just say it. He sounds like he's trying to dance around it a bit too much. It's not helpful when the Time writer comes away confused and that should be a warning to him and his people.

My view is that the majority of American voters, particularly Republicans, generally like it when their national candidates are affiliated with and attend a church (Christian is preferred, Jewish is okay, Muslim is a very hard sell, I wouldn't know about Hindu, Buddhist, or others). I think Mitt's candidacy has gone a long way to help Mormonism become more palatable.

This puts Huntsman in a difficult position because it appears he can't check that box. If he turns his back on his Mormonism, which is how it appears, then what does he turn to? It may also raise awkward questions since he was devout much of his life.

[CardiacCoug]

If that's how he feels he ought to just come out and say it.

Because unfortunately in America you have to be pretend to be at least somewhat religious if you want to be President.

[TripletDaddy]

Yeah, just say it. He sounds like he's trying to dance around it a bit too much. It's not helpful when the Time writer comes away confused and that should be a warning to him and his people.

My view is that the majority of American voters, particularly Republicans, generally like it when their national candidates are affiliated with and attend a church (Christian is preferred, Jewish is okay, Muslim is a very hard sell, I wouldn't know about Hindu, Buddhist, or others). I think Mitt's candidacy has gone a long way to help Mormonism become more palatable.

This puts Huntsman in a difficult position because it appears he can't check that box. If he turns his back on his Mormonism, which is how it appears, then what does he turn to? It may also raise awkward questions since he was devout much of his life.

Why would any political candidate admit to being inactive in his or her faith? What does that accomplish?

[Viking]

You make some fair points, but this isn't really the case at all - being Jewish is first and foremost a matter of maternal descent, and secondarily a matter of cultural/communal assocation. There are secular, agnostic and even atheist Jews who are every bit as Jewish culturally as their Hasidic brethren. There is a communal culture in Judaism that lives outside of religious belief - the same simply isn't true of Mormons. Our communal identity is very much anchored in the practice of Mormon principles. A totally non-observant, non-believing secular Jew can walk into temple and be called into a minyan (the quorum required for a prayer service).

That might be changing incrementally for Mormons and I think it is - and to some extent I think it should - but it isn't anything like Jewishness in its non-religious and ethnic component. A majority of the global Jewish population is secular but still very much self-defines as Jewish.

I have a hard time believing that other than in certain wards in NYC, for example, being a mormon will always be defined in a binary fashion.

My wife told the bish of our manhattan ward she enjoys a glass of wine every once in a while, doesn't believe in JS, doesn't believe in the BOM, but loves going to church for the association. He said, "cool.".

[Viking]

Why would any political candidate admit to being inactive in his or her faith? What does that accomplish?

Yeah, this is getting a serious mormon interpretation. Newt as a catholic is probably like most catholics: AEC...ash wednesday, easter, christmas. No catholic would ever wonder if he's inactive or active. That's silly mormon talk.

[falafel]

If that's how he feels he ought to just come out and say it.

Sounded to me like he did.

[TripletDaddy]

Yeah, this is getting a serious mormon interpretation. Newt as a catholic is probably like most catholics: AEC...ash wednesday, easter, christmas. No catholic would ever wonder if he's inactive or active. That's silly mormon talk.

I agree. It sounds ridiculous to expect the guy to"admit" that he may be inactive LDS. What is the concern? That he is going to reflect poorly on other LDS people?

[myboynoah]

Why would any political candidate admit to being inactive in his or her faith? What does that accomplish?

I don't know, it allows him to be open and honest? But that will likely have a political price to it.

These aren't Mormon writers asking the question. Maybe this will be the end of it, but I don't think so. We Americans, and Republicans in particular, are interested in the religiosity of our candidates and tend to prefer those at the devout end of the spectrum. Given the hubub over Mitt 3-4 years ago, it seems natural for the media to explore Huntsman's Mormonosity.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't know, it allows him to be open and honest? But that will likely have a political price to it.

These aren't Mormon writers asking the question. Maybe this will be the end of it, but I don't think so. We Americans, and Republicans in particular, are interested in the religiosity of our candidates and tend to prefer those at the devout end of the spectrum. Given the hubub over Mitt 3-4 years ago, it seems natural for the media to explore Huntsman's Mormonosity.

Open and honest? How religiously active were any of our previous presidents? How much of their religion's doctrine did they believe? What concerns did they have? Which principles did they have trouble living? What does it matter?

Mormons are obsessed with this sort of stuff. They are the only religion I know that categorically define their members as active or inactive....er....LESS active. Jews will call themselves ortho, but as ox pointed put, cultural Jews could not care less how often you go to temple.

[NorthwestUteFan]

so why is it, if/when we have a crisis of faith in the religion our parents chose for us, we feel compelled to either: A) remain straight-arrow and unquestioningly orthodox, at least on the surface, or B) never completely tap dance around questions of faith?

I think it is because we are so heavily identified by our religion. Unless we come out and say we don't believe it, we are completely opposed to some of the teachings, we don't practice, etc we are pigeonholed for our beliefs.

This pigeonholing, however, may very well be internally generated, i.e. we are socialized to believe that the world (specifically religion/activity level/the gospel) is entirely black and white. In truth, the world is technicolor and even without the vibrant colors there are infinite shades of gray. Also the activity level of the child reflects heavily on the parents in Mormon culture.

And this leads to the following political calculus:

If Huntsman is a true blue, down the line Mormon => he will be exceptionally vulnerable to Prop 8 and blacks and the priesthood*

If Huntsman is now anti-church => Why was he deceived so long? He must not be a very thoughtful man.

If Huntsman is ambivalent in his answer about the church => he can mold the answer to match the question, without ever being nailed down on a issue.

Any thoughts?


*(note this does not hold for Harry Reid because of the D next to his name, and Romney may not be able to shake it - except he was strongly supportive of gay civil unions)