Juan Gone

[RobinFinderson]

Saying that is out of line for a "news analyst?"

Yes, obviously.

[LA Ute]

Yes, obviously.

I don't want to duke it out with you, Robin, but why is that obvious? It's what conservative pundits have been saying about Mrs. Obama ever since the 2008 campaign. I respect Juan Williams because he does seem to call them as he sees them and doesn't seem to have an agenda. It just seems surprising for a new organization to criticize a news analyst for saying that Michelle Obama has a "blame America first" mentality. Should he have gotten in trouble if he had said that G.W. Bush displayed a "cowboy mentality?"

[RobinFinderson]

I don't want to duke it out with you, Robin, but why is that obvious? It's what conservative pundits have been saying about Mrs. Obama ever since the 2008 campaign. I respect Juan Williams because he does seem to call them as he sees them and doesn't seem to have an agenda. It just seems surprising for a new organization to criticize a news analyst for saying that Michelle Obama has a "blame America first" mentality. Should he have gotten in trouble if he had said that G.W. Bush displayed a "cowboy mentality?"

There is no such thing as a human 'instinct' to blame America. No serious analysis of the facts could lead to such a conclusion. To say that this is 'instinct' is to say that it is something done without thinking. Again, there is no way to know what the thought process was that led Ms. Obama to make her point, but to assume that there WASN'T a thought process (instinct) is simply an insult. It is insulting to suggest that either Ms. Obama or Stokely Carmichael (an important and serious civil rights leader) arrived at their views without thinking. It is also insulting to suggest that the scope of their concern about America extends beyond the context of their comments. Yes, conservative pundits have been saying this for a long time, and they mean it as an insult. Had Williams been a 'pundit' rather than an 'analyst' when he made that insulting point, it would have merely been a stupid thing to say, however as an 'analyst,' it was both insulting and unprofessional.

[LA Ute]

There is no such thing as a human 'instinct' to blame America. No serious analysis of the facts could lead to such a conclusion. To say that this is 'instinct' is to say that it is something done without thinking. Again, there is no way to know what the thought process was that led Ms. Obama to make her point, but to assume that there WASN'T a thought process (instinct) is simply an insult. It is insulting to suggest that either Ms. Obama or Stokely Carmichael (an important and serious civil rights leader) arrived at their views without thinking. It is also insulting to suggest that the scope of their concern about America extends beyond the context of their comments. Yes, conservative pundits have been saying this for a long time, and they mean it as an insult. Had Williams been a 'pundit' rather than an 'analyst' when he made that insulting point, it would have merely been a stupid thing to say, however as an 'analyst,' it was both insulting and unprofessional.

I understand but disagree. BTW, you didn't answer my question about G.W. Bush.

[RobinFinderson]

I understand but disagree. BTW, you didn't answer my question about G.W. Bush.

An analyst would generally not say that someone has a 'cowboy mentality' without then explaining what is meant by the phrase. Maybe the analyst thought that Bush was going to stick it to the bad guys (Saddam?) even if it meant going it alone. Or maybe he meant that Bush believed in rugged American self reliance. Unlike the phrase 'blame America first instinct,' there is nothing inherently insulting about a 'cowboy mentality.' It is also possible to examine the actions of Bush and compare them to real and mythic cowboys. To say someone has a 'cowboy mentality' is an invitation to discussion. Is it a Spaghetti Western or High Noon? Maybe there is a better example of a Bush insult passing for analysis, but 'cowboy mentality' and 'blame America first instinct' aren't playing in the same league.

[creekster]

Robin I know how precise you like to be with words, so I am curious if you would feel the same if Juan Williams had said her 'knee-jerk' reaction is to blame America first. Would that be a clear violation of NPR standards, in your view?

[RobinFinderson]

Robin I know how precise you like to be with words, so I am curious if you would feel the same if Juan Williams had said her 'knee-jerk' reaction is to blame America first. Would that be a clear violation of NPR standards, in your view?

I suppose the derivation of 'knee-jerk' is the knee reflex the doctor tests with the little rubber hammer, which is almost the same as the word 'instinct.' But the phrase doesn't feel like it has the same bite. If Juan had said 'knee-jerk,' the first thought that would come to my mind would be, 'Has Ms. Obama done this enough to really merit calling it a knee-jerk reaction?' In contrast, to say that Ms. Obama has a 'blame America first instinct,' and then to double the insult by applying it also to poor Stokely Carmichael, well that just makes me think, 'Why the freak is he insulting these people?' Even Bill O'Reilly commented on the unlikelihood of Ms. Obama doing what Williams described as an 'instinct.'

Anyhow, the difference between 'knee-jerk' and 'instinct' is subtle enough that I'm not sure that it deserves the differentiation, but that is how it breaks for me. In general, I think that referring to anything as a 'knee-jerk reaction' is a poor excuse for analysis. I can't think of a single time when it was said in a way that offered valuable insight into a person or situation.

[LA Ute]

The idea that liberals tend to be apologetic about American foreign policy and tend to see America as the biggest, or at least a major, source of problems in the world dates back to Jean Kirkpatrick in the 1980 Republican National Convention when Ronald Reagan was nominated. Good old Jean was the first to say that the phrase "blame America first" described the Carter administration's view. In other words, accusing liberals of blaming America first is a very old idea and it is not an insult. It's a description of a worldview.

Opposing points of view in response to this post are welcome, even if they are wrong.

[RobinFinderson]

The idea that liberals tend to be apologetic about American foreign policy and tend to see America as the biggest, or at least a major, source of problems in the world dates back to Jean Kirkpatrick in the 1980 Republican National Convention when Ronald Reagan was nominated. Good old Jean was the first to say that the phrase "blame America first" described the Carter administration's view. In other words, accusing liberals of blaming America first is a very old idea and it is not an insult. It's a description of a worldview.

Opposing points of view in response to this post are welcome, even if they are wrong.

I don't have much problem with a tendency by some to 'blame America first.' There could be many thoughtful reasons to 'blame' American policy for situations around the world. My problem was with the word 'instinct' and with the connection to Stokely Carmichael, who was correct to 'blame America first' for the plight of black people throughout most of this country's history.

[hostile]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/25/npr-ceo-sorry-for-how-she-handled-juan-williams-firing/?hpt=T2

[Uncle Ted]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/25...firing/?hpt=T2

I like the part:

I also regret that this happened when the staff and volunteers of many stations were deeply engaged in pledge drives.

For the hell of it I called up my local NPR just the other day and said something like: "I like would like to pledge $100 because I just love that Juan Williams." There was a noticeable pause on the other end and the lady told me that Juan was not longer with NPR. I responded that is really too bad because my pledge is no longer with NPR either and hung up. I now suspect I wasn't the only one that called with this message.

[SeattleUte]

As well they should; everyone knows that the Christian Right runs the Republican party. That doesn't mean that most democrats aren't just as pious, or at least pretend to be.

True progressives want everyone, including Muslims, to receive a fair hearing. They also prize freedome of speech perhaps above all else. It's because of progressive not social conservatives that burquas will never be banned in our country.

I don't think Juan Williams is imperiling any Muslim civil liberties with what he said. I also think that this so-called professional standard he purportedly breached is breached all the time, including particularly on NPR. Actually, in terms of being fair to Muslims, couching what he said as his own personal opinion or phobia probably lessened or eliminated any offensive connotation, in my opinion.

On the other hand, is anyone troubled that a government funded news outlet fired a commentator for the content of his speech?

[LA Ute]

True progressives want everyone, including Muslims, to receive a fair hearing. They also prize freedome of speech perhaps above all else. It's because of progressive not social conservatives that burquas will never be banned in our country.

I don't think Juan Williams is imperiling any Muslim civil liberties with what he said. I also think that this so-called professional standard he purportedly breached is breached all the time, including particularly on NPR. Actually, in terms of being fair to Muslims, couching what he said as his own personal opinion or phobia probably lessened or eliminated any offensive connotation, in my opinion.

On the other hand, is anyone troubled that a government funded news outlet fired a commentator for the content of his speech?

I am. The late Daniel Schorr used to say things, as a news analyst for NPR, that offended my conservative sensibilities, but I never thought he should be sacked for that. I just thought they should add a right-leaning news analyst.

[SeattleUte]

I am. The late Daniel Schorr used to say things, as a news analyst for NPR, that offended my conservative sensibilities, but I never thought he should be sacked for that. I just thought they should add a right-leaning news analyst.

Perfect example! Daniel Schorr yammered on endlessly about his personal opinions. Can you imagine the firestorm if they had fired Daniel Schorr for that?

[creekster]

True progressives want everyone, including Muslims, to receive a fair hearing. They also prize freedome of speech perhaps above all else. It's because of progressive not social conservatives that burquas will never be banned in our country.

I don't think Juan Williams is imperiling any Muslim civil liberties with what he said. I also think that this so-called professional standard he purportedly breached is breached all the time, including particularly on NPR. Actually, in terms of being fair to Muslims, couching what he said as his own personal opinion or phobia probably lessened or eliminated any offensive connotation, in my opinion.

On the other hand, is anyone troubled that a government funded news outlet fired a commentator for the content of his speech?

I too am troubled. ANd, for once, I agree with your entire post.