Horrible: Student commits suicide after video of him making out with a guy leaked

[Surfah]

I do blame them. Their actions is a direct result of his death. I am pretty sure that cannot be refuted..

But prosecuting them for his death. Again. Show me where I said that. The only place I said anything was "They should pay dearly".. No mention of what you just stated...

And, again, as stated before. I have a problem showing them mercy and chalking it up to "Stupid Kids"...

Of course it can be refuted.

Did you read what I posted? I never said you wanted the kids to get the death penalty. I said you presume these kids guilty for the kid's death and you want them prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In this case it looks like 5 years max.

This has nothing to do with mercy. It has everything to do with the laws they broke.

[KillerDog]

I'm sorry but the idea that he killed himself because of a video of him making out with a dude doesn't hold water for me. People don't kill themselves because of a single event. There are a lot of things that went into this kids decision. While we are holding the people who posted the video accountable, maybe we should also hold whatever teacher most recently gave him a bad grade accountable. We should also hold his parents accountable for not helping him to work through his issues and for generally being assholes (which many parents are). Let's hold religion accountable because it has created a hostile environment for homosexuals. I would also like to throw the book at the entire state of NJ because the state is full of poorly adjusted pricks. This is tragic and people love to have a villian when something tragic happens but these kids don't have very much culpability imo.

[wuapinmon]

I was discussing some of these things with my wife last night (not the WOW masturbating. I try and keep those thoughts private). If this was video of a hot or especially a famous girl and was leaked all over the internet. Wouldn't many insinuate she knew about it and wanted it seen. It seems that every few weeks I read about (yes I said read and not see) a celebrity sex tape. Can these truly be distributed without both partners consent?

I don't know if bullying is anymore prevalent than 20 or 50 years ago, but it certainly seems the facebook, twitter, texting, etc can make the ripple effect infinitely larger. I'm so glad I'm not a teenager nowadays and I'm nervous as I watch my kids try and walk the tightrope of middle and high school.

Bullying is alive and well, but it's no worse than it's ever been. It's just faster and more consequence-free than ever.

[UtahDan]

I'm sorry but the idea that he killed himself because of a video of him making out with a dude doesn't hold water for me. People don't kill themselves because of a single event. There are a lot of things that went into this kids decision. While we are holding the people who posted the video accountable, maybe we should also hold whatever teacher most recently gave him a bad grade accountable. We should also hold his parents accountable for not helping him to work through his issues and for generally being assholes (which many parents are). Let's hold religion accountable because it has created a hostile environment for homosexuals. I would also like to throw the book at the entire state of NJ because the state is full of poorly adjusted pricks. This is tragic and people love to have a villian when something tragic happens but these kids don't have very much culpability imo.

It sort of makes me think of the high suicide rate in Japan. Why do so many Japanese kill themselves when they lose a job or something similar. One of our experts can weigh in, but my sense is that it is because they are from a culture that sees such an event as so intensely shameful and so difficult or impossible to recover from that shame that a person immersed in that culture (in other words, not looking at it from the outside like we are) would only see a very, very bleak life for himself.

What contributes to a young man in college being immersed in a society, family, culture etc. that causes him being "outed" to be such a terrible thing that he would rather not live than live with the shame? That is the question that ought to be asked. I believe that a person who commits suicide is not making that choice from a rational place, but that fact doesn't absolve anyone. Nor does the fact that there is lots of blame to go around. True, many young people face the same things and don't make this choice, but a lot do. And a percentage will continue to as long as conditions persist in families, communities, churches, schools, etc where a kid doesn't have a friendly place to turn and is frightened of repercussions.

IMO, homosexuality needs to be viewed about the same way left handedness is. My kids are going to grow up knowing that if this turns out to be the case for them that it will not make one iota of difference to their parents.

[DrumNFeather]

IMO, homosexuality needs to be viewed about the same way left handedness is. My kids are going to grow up knowing that if this turns out to be the case for them that it will not make one iota of difference to their parents.

It's nice to know that you don't view me differently than everyone else in the family because of my left-handedness.

[falafel]

I do blame them. Their actions is a direct result of his death. I am pretty sure that cannot be refuted..

I think you meant to say that his death was a direct result of their actions. But in any event, its really not a "direct" result, I don't think. I certainly don't think it was foreseeable that this poor kid would jump off a bridge if the video was posted. Be humiliated, yes, maybe leave school, have years of emotional scarring, etc. But most people don't jump off a bridge when they're humiliated, even deeply humiliated.

[UtahDan]

I think you meant to say that his death was a direct result of their actions. But in any event, its really not a "direct" result, I don't think. I certainly don't think it was foreseeable that this poor kid would jump off a bridge if the video was posted. Be humiliated, yes, maybe leave school, have years of emotional scarring, etc. But most people don't jump off a bridge when they're humiliated, even deeply humiliated.

I think the law would say it is an actual (thought remote) cause but not a proximate cause.

[Indy Coug]

IMO, homosexuality needs to be viewed about the same way left handedness is. My kids are going to grow up knowing that if this turns out to be the case for them that it will not make one iota of difference to their parents.

So how do you begin that conversation?

UD: "Junior, just in case you're gay, I want you to know that it won't make one iota of difference to me."

Junior: "Gay?"

[falafel]

I think the law would say it is an actual (thought remote) cause but not a proximate cause.

exactly.

[dabrockster]

I think you meant to say that his death was a direct result of their actions. But in any event, its really not a "direct" result, I don't think. I certainly don't think it was foreseeable that this poor kid would jump off a bridge if the video was posted. Be humiliated, yes, maybe leave school, have years of emotional scarring, etc. But most people don't jump off a bridge when they're humiliated, even deeply humiliated.

you are correct...

[SoCalCoug]

I'm sorry but the idea that he killed himself because of a video of him making out with a dude doesn't hold water for me. People don't kill themselves because of a single event. There are a lot of things that went into this kids decision. While we are holding the people who posted the video accountable, maybe we should also hold whatever teacher most recently gave him a bad grade accountable. We should also hold his parents accountable for not helping him to work through his issues and for generally being assholes (which many parents are). Let's hold religion accountable because it has created a hostile environment for homosexuals. I would also like to throw the book at the entire state of NJ because the state is full of poorly adjusted pricks. This is tragic and people love to have a villian when something tragic happens but these kids don't have very much culpability imo.

You're contradicting yourself here. As I interpret it, you're saying there are many things that lead to someone killing himself. But then you say the video didn't lead him to kill himself, because there are many things that lead to it.

I think you're missing a distinction between "the" cause and "a" cause. You're saying the video isn't "the" cause, but you're not acknowledging that it could have been "a" cause. Do you believe someone should be let off the hook for their actions just because there are other things that contributed to the result?

[KillerDog]

You're contradicting yourself here. As I interpret it, you're saying there are many things that lead to someone killing himself. But then you say the video didn't lead him to kill himself, because there are many things that lead to it.

I think you're missing a distinction between "the" cause and "a" cause. You're saying the video isn't "the" cause, but you're not acknowledging that it could have been "a" cause. Do you believe someone should be let off the hook for their actions just because there are other things that contributed to the result?

I will try and clarify. I don't think there is a proximate cause to this suicide. I think any number of things could be and are assigned as the proximate cause by people who have an axe to grind. Some have chosen the video as the cause du jour and my guess is they are grinding an axe. Others might have an issue with parents, religion, college, etc. and each of them would identify their own personal concern as the cause. I don't believe we can honestly identify a proximate cause to this suicide and I think the attempt here smacks of results driven logic (or lack of logic as the case may be). Suicide is very complex, much more complex than murder, and accordingly, assigning blame makes little sense.

[dabrockster]

I will try and clarify. I don't think there is a proximate cause to this suicide. I think any number of things could be and are assigned as the proximate cause by people who have an axe to grind. Some have chosen the video as the cause du jour and my guess is they are grinding an axe. Others might have an issue with parents, religion, college, etc. and each of them would identify their own personal concern as the cause. I don't believe we can honestly identify a proximate cause to this suicide and I think the attempt here smacks of results driven logic (or lack of logic as the case may be). Suicide is very complex, much more complex than murder, and accordingly, assigning blame makes little sense.

So you think he still would of committed suicide even if the video was not made public?

[UtahDan]

So how do you begin that conversation?

UD: "Junior, just in case you're gay, I want you to know that it won't make one iota of difference to me."

Junior: "Gay?"

I can't tell if you are serious or not. Children understand what heterosexual couples come in pairs without understanding much about sex. At appropriate points I will point out, without judgment, that most grown ups love and want to be with the opposite sex but some don't. They are more than likely going to see it around, but they won't hear me condemn it, so I don't know that there will be a specific talk. I imagine at some point they will hear condemnation of it at church and they can add that to the mix. I will almost certainly tell them that some of their friends might be mean to people because they are different, because they are fat, of a different race, because they don't like the opposite sex, etc. and that this wrong and we don't do it at our house. At the appropriate age of course.

If they ask me, I will tell them "this is what the church teaches, and here is what dad thinks." I think it will be more about what I don't say if that makes any sense.

[Surfah]

So you think he still would of committed suicide even if the video was not made public?

We don't know why he committed suicide to begin with.