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  • The United States of Venezuela

    IMO, this is going to be the biggest defining action of Trump's presidency and therefor deserves its own thread. The tariffs, immigration crack-downs, the dismantling of our institutions and guard rails will pale in comparison. The public doesn't pay much attention to most of that, but it always seems to pay very close attention to foreign wars we initiate.

    So apparently we are going to run Venezuela from Washington. Early indications are that Venezuela's VP, Delcy Rodriguez, is going to be our initial puppet there.

    Trump said Secretary of State Marco Rubio has spoken with Venezuelan Vice President Delcy Rodriguez about the country's next steps. "She had a long conversation with Marco, and she said, 'We'll do whatever you need.' She, I think she was quite gracious, but she really doesn't have a choice," Trump said. Under Venezuela law, Rodriguez would be next in line to assume power from Maduro. But it's unclear that the Trump administration would accept her as the country's leader.

    The big picture: Trump's announcement that the U.S. would be temporarily taking control of Venezuela and its oil infrastructure is arguably the most unvarnished assertion of American imperialism since the invasion of Iraq. It would leave the U.S. responsible for restoring stability in a country riven with political violence, well-armed gangs, a military that still at least officially answers to the Maduro regime, and a years-long economic crisis.
    https://www.axios.com/2026/01/03/trump-venezuela-maduro

    Trump's plans to have large U.S. oil companies enter Venezuela and get "oil flowing" will be hindered by lack of infrastructure that will require many years and heavy investment, analysts said. "There are still many questions that need to be answered about the state of the Venezuelan oil industry, but it is clear that it will take tens of billions of dollars to turn that industry around," said Peter McNally, Global Head of Sector Analysts at Third Bridge, adding that it could take at least a decade of Western oil majors committing to the country.

    A U.S. embargo on all Venezuelan oil, meanwhile, remains in full effect, Trump said. He told reporters that the U.S. military forces would remain in position until U.S. demands had been fully met.

    "The American armada remains poised in position, and the U.S. retains all military options until United States demands have been fully met and fully satisfied," he said.
    Oil tankers chartered by Chevron have been among the few to set sail from Venezuela over the past month, following Trump's December announcement of a "blockade" of all sanctioned tankers entering and leaving the country.
    https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...la-2026-01-03/

    This might be a long haul.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    "I know that you are one of the cool and 'edgy' BYU fans" -- Wally

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  • #2
    Gemini's summary of the similarities between the invation of Iraq in 2003 and Venezuela in 2026. All emphasis is Gemini's.

    Both the 2003 US invasion of Iraq and the recent 2026 US military operation in Venezuela share several key similarities, primarily concerning the
    pretexts used to justify military action, the goal of regime change in oil-rich nations with personalist dictators, and the concerns over the legality and aftermath of the intervention.
    Key Similarities
    • Pretext for War and Intelligence Use: In both cases, the administrations were accused of using selective intelligence to justify a predetermined policy of intervention.
      • Iraq: The Bush administration justified the invasion based on the claim that Iraq possessed "weapons of mass destruction" (WMDs), which were later found to be non-existent.
      • Venezuela: The Trump administration cited claims of Nicolás Maduro running a "narco-terrorist" organization and used the pretext of stemming the flow of drugs into the US, a rationale which some analysts dismissed as weak or a "blurry xerox-of-a-xerox" of the Iraq justification.
    • Regime Change Goal: A primary objective in both scenarios was the removal of the sitting leader and their government.
      • Iraq: The goal was to overthrow Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist state.
      • Venezuela: The U.S. operation led to the capture of Nicolás Maduro and his wife, with President Trump stating the U.S. would "run the country" temporarily to facilitate a transition.
    • Oil-Rich Nations: Both Iraq and Venezuela are significant oil-producing countries, leading to criticisms that access to or control over oil resources was an underlying motive for intervention.
    • Dictatorial, Anti-US Leaders: Both nations were ruled by authoritarian leaders (Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela) who had long been thorns in the United States' side and were targeted with intense personal focus by the US government.
    • Humanitarian Crisis as Justification: Punishing economic sanctions were imposed on both countries before military action, which contributed to humanitarian crises. These crises were later used as part of the justification for intervention.
    • Legality and Lack of Congressional Authorization: The military actions in both countries faced significant questions regarding their legality under international and U.S. law.
      • Iraq: The invasion was carried out without explicit UN Security Council approval for the use of force.
      • Venezuela: The operation was initiated without specific authorization from the U.S. Congress, leading some lawmakers to call the action illegal.
    • Concerns Over Aftermath: In both instances, there were concerns about a lack of a clear "day after" plan and the potential for long-term instability or occupation, which many feared would mirror the protracted conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    I would also add that the UN condemned the US invasion of Iraq, and seems to be doing the same of the invasion of Venezuela.

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    • #3
      If the official US position is that Maduro was not elected, the VP wasn't elected either and has no power. The best result is elections in 6 months and we're out. I have zero faith in the US being able to oversee fair elections, given the determination of the GOP to suppress all possible votes in the US.

      And any seizing of oil for US interests or to "pay" for the war efforts is a war crime.

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      • #4


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        • #5


          Yeah, that guy is good.

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          • #6
            There is talk from Trump that Cuba is next. There's speculation Trump is trying to trade spheres of influence with China and Russia.
            Notice all the military endeavours Trump is threatening are all offensive. Greenland, Mexico, Panama Canal, Canada etc.

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            • #7
              Not one day later after offering support for the vice president and she rebuffing US threats, Trump is ready to escalate. And not just Venezuela:

              In a telephone interview this morning, President Donald Trump issued a not-so-veiled threat against the new Venezuelan leader, Delcy Rodríguez, saying that “if she doesn’t do what’s right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro,” referring to Nicolás Maduro, now residing in a New York City jail cell. Trump made clear that he would not stand for what he described as Rodríguez’s defiant rejection of the armed U.S. intervention that resulted in Maduro’s capture.

              During our call, Trump, who had just arrived at his golf club in West Palm Beach, was in evident good spirits, and reaffirmed to me that Venezuela may not be the last country subject to American intervention. “We do need Greenland, absolutely,” he said, describing the island—a part of Denmark, a NATO ally—as “surrounded by Russian and Chinese ships.” And in discussing Venezuela’s future, he signaled a clear shift away from his previous distaste for regime change and nation building, rejecting the concerns of many in his MAGA base. “You know, rebuilding there and regime change, anything you want to call it, is better than what you have right now. Can’t get any worse,” he said.
              https://www.theatlantic.com/national...campaign=share

              When we occupy Greenland the one small soupcon of schadenfreude I'll enjoy is the supposedly serious Rubio justifying it. His 100% capitulation to Trump has been enjoyable to watch so far.
              "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
              "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
              - SeattleUte

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              • #8
                Tough spot for the opposition. Maduro truly is a horrible evil person.

                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                  Tough spot for the opposition. Maduro truly is a horrible evil person.

                  I think it will become less of a tough spot as Trump does things like deploys ground troops and micromanage a sovereign nation's politics.


                  Maduro was awful which makes it more insidious Trump and Stephen Miller were busy rounding up a bunch of Venezuelans who had legit asylum claims.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
                    Not one day later after offering support for the vice president and she rebuffing US threats, Trump is ready to escalate. And not just Venezuela:



                    https://www.theatlantic.com/national...campaign=share

                    When we occupy Greenland the one small soupcon of schadenfreude I'll enjoy is the supposedly serious Rubio justifying it. His 100% capitulation to Trump has been enjoyable to watch so far.
                    It would be hard not to call us the bad guys if we invaded Greenland. The fact that this is being countenanced is gross.

                    Maduro was corrupt and anti-democratic, but we have moved the international standards over what is acceptable behavior.

                    At this start of Trump's second admin, Maduro was making threats toward Puerto Rico and the governor wanted Trump to express some tough talk and Trump was mute.

                    We won't be able to call out China when they invade them (we won't defend them either. The US will also have less moral high ground when Putin keeps attacking Europe

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                    • #11
                      This is interesting. I don't remember this bounty but apparently it happened under Biden.

                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                      • #12

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                          This is interesting. I don't remember this bounty but apparently it happened under Biden.
                          It started under Trump's first term at $15 million. Biden upped it to $25 million a while later.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                            It started under Trump's first term at $15 million. Biden upped it to $25 million a while later.
                            Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Trump pays himself the $25M.
                            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                            • #15
                              Screenshot 2026-01-04 at 2.52.56 PM.png

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