Zohran Mamdani - Democratic Socialist Mayor of NYC

[frank ryan]

You talked about how they are the same and I'm disagreeing with you.

[Moliere]

Moli my post wasn't commentary on who is better but how they are different.

[frank ryan]

Moli my post wasn't commentary on who is better but how they are different.

[Moliere]

Huh? .

Mahmdami is all about social programs. Trump is doing the project 2025 things and gutting social programs and consumer protection checks. He is about shifting wealth to the rich. Mahmdami is about redistriputing wealth downward.

Trump is about corporatism. Mahmdami is socialist

First off, you are assuming that the best way to redistribute wealth and to help people out of poverty is to increase social programs. I'd dispute that assumption as there's evidence contrary to it. That's not to say that social programs are not needed as they clearly are. You also are insinuating that Trump doesn't want to help the poor and the blue collar workers. He clearly does and they are the reason he's president. Whether or not his policies have done that is another matter.

Instead of using fair and capitalistic practices to allocate funds for programs and projects, they create other criteria that ensure the money goes to the people they like and the people that support them. It's corruption no matter how you look at it.

[frank ryan]

I definitely don't disagree with this take. There isn't much difference between what Trump is doing economically and what Mahmdami wants to do. As many people say, the political spectrum is more of a circle and the extreme fringes of the sides pretty much touch each other.

Huh? .

Mahmdami is all about social programs. Trump is doing the project 2025 things and gutting social programs and consumer protection checks. He is about shifting wealth to the rich. Mahmdami is about redistriputing wealth downward.

Trump is about corporatism. Mahmdami is socialist

[Moliere]

I debated whether to put this here, or in another thread and decided it fits best when discussing the other prominent New York City socialist:

Socialism’s American Comeback Might Have an Unlikely Leader: Donald Trump

https://www.newsweek.com

"Many have argued, however, that Trump is embracing policies—from state control over the means of production to government intervention in private industry—that could be associated with the “menace” about which he is now fretting. For his critics, the contradiction is becoming harder to ignore."

I definitely don't disagree with this take. There isn't much difference between what Trump is doing economically and what Mahmdami wants to do. As many people say, the political spectrum is more of a circle and the extreme fringes of the sides pretty much touch each other.

[tooblue]

I debated whether to put this here, or in another thread and decided it fits best when discussing the other prominent New York City socialist:

Socialism’s American Comeback Might Have an Unlikely Leader: Donald Trump

https://www.newsweek.com

"Many have argued, however, that Trump is embracing policies—from state control over the means of production to government intervention in private industry—that could be associated with the “menace” about which he is now fretting. For his critics, the contradiction is becoming harder to ignore."

[originalsocal]

Ha, it’s well established that Trump is not a conservative nor is he a champion of free markets. He’sa populist that it’s corrupt and is only looking for his own self gain. Oh and he’s an idiot.

An idiot supported time and again by conservative republicans. Mol, you are the best!

[Moliere]

A government run grocery store is communism, but "freedom fuel" gas stations are ...

White House launches 25 Freedom Fuel gas stations in this region

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s/90838506007/

Ha, it’s well established that Trump is not a conservative nor is he a champion of free markets. He’sa populist that it’s corrupt and is only looking for his own self gain. Oh and he’s an idiot.

[Northwestcoug]

FDR did something right. How can you explain making my grandparents reliable democratic voters for life? (which caused all their children I knew about to swing republican...)

[tooblue]

A government run grocery store is communism, but "freedom fuel" gas stations are ...

White House launches 25 Freedom Fuel gas stations in this region

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s/90838506007/

[Moliere]

According to the conspiracy, theorists, FDR knew all about the Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor, but deliberately kept a lid on it so that the US would be enraged and ready to go into the war like he wanted all along. This is actually a fairly common theory in Japan.

Ha, that’s crazy and funny. I can see that having legs given that the aircraft carriers were at sea so he just let the battleships get hit…but the theory overall defies logic.

I actually wonder if the US would have joined the war effort without Pearl Harbor happening. It’s impossible to know but I think they’d eventually join if/when Russia advanced into Germany as a way to block communism from taking over.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Agreed on him doing what he could. He didn't have the support of the Americans though to put boots on the ground and I doubt he wanted to do that until Pearl Harbor. I don't think he was trying to get us into the war but he was trying to support the Allies however possible while avoiding being directly in the war.

According to the conspiracy, theorists, FDR knew all about the Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor, but deliberately kept a lid on it so that the US would be enraged and ready to go into the war like he wanted all along. This is actually a fairly common theory in Japan.

[Moliere]

The "Cash and Carry" (pre-cursor to lend-lease) started in 1939. The Lend-Lease act passed in March 1941. Hitler declared war on the US the day after Pearl Harbor (December 1941) so we were all-in on both fronts after that.

Here is a nice summary. You can see that FDR was doing everything he could to support the allies well before Pearl Harbor.

https://www.fdrlibrary.org/lend-lease

Agreed on him doing what he could. He didn't have the support of the Americans though to put boots on the ground and I doubt he wanted to do that until Pearl Harbor. I don't think he was trying to get us into the war but he was trying to support the Allies however possible while avoiding being directly in the war.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You might be messing up your dates and I was probably too hard on FDR. Very few ships were sunk prior to Dec 1941. I just asked google and it says five ships were sunk by u-boats prior to Pearl Harbor. The majority of lend-lease was done in 1942-1943 prior to the US really getting into the European/African fronts. Americans had prepared for war by ramping up production of war goods and instituting a draft, but the real work happened after 1941. Democrats and FDR were clearly more favorable to cash/carry and lend/lease but a lot of Republicans were also fine providing goods with some strings attached. FDR privately supported the war effort but he'd never get the political clout to enter the war without a Pearl Harbor type attack. Even Democrats didn't support entering the war with boots on the ground until Pearl Harbor. After Pearl Harbor, pretty much every American was for entering the war.

I pushed back on frank's post because it insinuates that Republican's were sympathetic to fascist ideologies during WW2. Nothing is further from the truth. Republicans were mostly isolationists that didn't want their sons going to die for a regional conflict in Europe. As France fell, Germany tried to invade the UK, Germany invaded Russia, Japan invaded the South Pacific and Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, everyone of these pulled Americans closer and closer to supporting entering the war.

The "Cash and Carry" (pre-cursor to lend-lease) started in 1939. The Lend-Lease act passed in March 1941. Hitler declared war on the US the day after Pearl Harbor (December 1941) so we were all-in on both fronts after that.

Here is a nice summary. You can see that FDR was doing everything he could to support the allies well before Pearl Harbor.

https://www.fdrlibrary.org/lend-lease