Tucker Carlson and other right-wing grifters

[frank ryan]

I am not commenting on the likelihood of that. I am just saying that whether he is getting paid or not, he is a loyal stooge.

Totally

[frank ryan]

Here is Shapiro being unhelpful again. He is pushing back on designating far right parties in Europe as far right.

They are, and many European countries have a more established history of a legitimized far right movements.

Defending Le Pen, Orban and Wilders is so bizarre and it's wildly inaccurate. It is like these talking heads are allergic to calling out right wing extremism.


And when I say far-right, I just mean the right. National Rally is not really a far-right party anymore. There's a there — every time there's a right-wing party, it's now labeled far-right despite whatever the actual positions of the party are. This is true everywhere in Europe. OK? Anytime you have a party like Meloni's party in Italy and it wins, it's a far-right party. Geert Wilders is now far-right. Viktor Orban is far-right. The Vox Party in Spain is far-right. National Rally is far-right. UKIP, the the independent party in the UK, is far-right. Far-right just means not a sort of moderately squishily slightly right-of-center European party. Anything to the right of that is now the far-right party.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Tucker isn’t alone in his concern about nuclear war. Annie Jacobsen, a well respected military journalist, has been pounding this same drum for the past year. Granted, she just published a book on the topic. The most terrifying book I’ve read. I’m much more worried about those understating the threat.

Not sure if you're including me here, but I have been very concerned about the threat of nuclear war (and probably for a lot longer time than most here). However, it's essential that one not overstate the threat (as Tucker has--do you think his statement is historically accurate?). Otherwise, Putin can work his will in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, the Baltics, even Poland, etc. I believe his goal is to remedy what he regards as the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th Century, the dissolution of the USSR. Many of the former constituent parts of that Union want nothing to do with reunification, and Putin's threats of nuclear attack shouldn't force us or them to accede with his demands. Doing so would, I think, increase the nuclear threat, not diminish it.

[YOhio]

Not sure if you're including me here, but I have been very concerned about the threat of nuclear war (and probably for a lot longer time than most here). However, it's essential that one not overstate the threat (as Tucker has--do you think his statement is historically accurate?). Otherwise, Putin can work his will in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, the Baltics, even Poland, etc. I believe his goal is to remedy what he regards as the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th Century, the dissolution of the USSR. Many of the former constituent parts of that Union want nothing to do with reunification, and Putin's threats of nuclear attack shouldn't force us or them to accede with his demands. Doing so would, I think, increase the nuclear threat, not diminish it.

I wasn't referring to any poster here. I was referring to politicians who don't seem too concerned about the threat as the conflict escalates. We're just a bunch of dudes swapping thoughts. As fun and important as that is, there's pretty much zero real world consequence to what we say or think. All due respect.

Your point is well taken. It's certainly not an easy position for decision-makers, especially when they've not been able to accurately read or contain Putin over the past two decades. Interesting article released yesterday on the subject by Foreign Policy.

[YOhio]

Carlson may not be on the Kremlin payroll, but he is the biggest useful idiot that Putin has. Just witness that absurd bit he did about the prices in grocery stores in Russia. Stupid shit like that destroys his credibility when he talks about nuclear threats, etc.

That grocery store visit was hilarious. It reminded me of James Franco in The Interview when he saw shops full of fruit, then later horrified to discover it was a Potemkin village.

I don't agree with Tucker on Ukraine-Russia, but I appreciate him providing a different viewpoint. I say this as someone who was all in on the GWOT, at least to the extent I didn't have to put on a uniform. I believed the government on WMD in Iraq. I thought Afghanistan and Iraq would embrace democracy. I voted for W twice and thought it was unpatriotic to criticize the war efforts. I argued with posters like Robin Finderson and SpaceGhost on the issue. In retrospect, I was an idiot. It's clear now that the government lied to us for 20 years and the war critics were right. I've come to strongly believe that dissent is healthy and important, especially when American resources are being purposed to kill people.

Again, I'm not saying he's right. But I also reject the presumption that Ukraine's interests are default in line with America's interests. Similarly I believe it possible that Russian (or any ally or adversarial nation) interests could align with ours. An important lesson from Vietnam and the GWOT is the importance of counter narrative. Of course there's the possibility of disinformation, but that same skepticism should be applied to the government side as well. That's probably why I get triggered when I see insults thrown at skeptics in lieu of engagement with the arguments.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That grocery store visit was hilarious. It reminded me of James Franco in The Interview when he saw shops full of fruit, then later horrified to discover it was a Potemkin village.

I don't agree with Tucker on Ukraine-Russia, but I appreciate him providing a different viewpoint. I say this as someone who was all in on the GWOT, at least to the extent I didn't have to put on a uniform. I believed the government on WMD in Iraq. I thought Afghanistan and Iraq would embrace democracy. I voted for W twice and thought it was unpatriotic to criticize the war efforts. I argued with posters like Robin Finderson and SpaceGhost on the issue. In retrospect, I was an idiot. It's clear now that the government lied to us for 20 years and the war critics were right. I've come to strongly believe that dissent is healthy and important, especially when American resources are being purposed to kill people.

Again, I'm not saying he's right. But I also reject the presumption that Ukraine's interests are default in line with America's interests. Similarly I believe it possible that Russian (or any ally or adversarial nation) interests could align with ours. An important lesson from Vietnam and the GWOT is the importance of counter narrative. Of course there's the possibility of disinformation, but that same skepticism should be applied to the government side as well. That's probably why I get triggered when I see insults thrown at skeptics in lieu of engagement with the arguments.

Help me understand how concluding that we were wrong to invade Iraq leads one to believe we should not support Ukraine in repelling the Russian invasion.

[BlueK]

It isn't a war and isn't an invasion. It's a special military operation to put down some nazis who attacked Russia first and were terrorizing ethnic Russians in eastern part of Ukraine which really is part of Russia anyway. In fact, all of Ukraine you can argue should belong to Russia. Carlson has said every one of those things at some point, or at least argued that all of these are valid arguments worth at least as much as saying Russia attacked Ukraine.

[Bo Diddley]

Nuance aside, it's pennies on the dollar as we degrade Russia's military machine. If we had spent so much on the GWOT, it'd be a slam dunk.

[YOhio]

Help me understand how concluding that we were wrong to invade Iraq leads one to believe we should not support Ukraine in repelling the Russian invasion.

Fair question. For me, the connection between Iraq and Ukraine isn’t about equating the two conflicts but about the need to stay skeptical of the narratives driving us into these commitments. Back during Iraq, I trusted what we were told about WMDs and the mission to spread democracy, and I was wrong. That whole experience led me to be more skeptical and open to those who question.

I get that Ukraine is a different situation. Russia’s invasion is a blatant act of aggression. My concern isn’t about whether Russia is in the wrong (they clearly are). It’s about whether we’re being honest and clear about what our involvement means. Are we defining what success looks like? Are we being transparent about the risks of escalation? And are we making sure this aligns with America’s broader interests, or are we just falling into a default position because we always oppose Russia?

I’m not saying we shouldn’t support Ukraine, but I think the skepticism that Iraq taught me is important here. If we’re sending resources and potentially escalating conflict, I want to know it’s for the right reasons, with clear goals and a solid strategy.

[USUC]

Listen, Tucker is an idiot and has terrible beliefs. But i find it hilarious that the left sees him as Hitler capable of monstrous acts while I was just on Reddit and every post on the main page is just people calling for the murder of all CEOs and right coded entrepreneurs.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Listen, Tucker is an idiot and has terrible beliefs. But i find it hilarious that the left sees him as Hitler capable of monstrous acts while I was just on Reddit and every post on the main page is just people calling for the murder of all CEOs and right coded entrepreneurs.

Your whatabout game is strong.

[Pelado]

If we’re sending resources and potentially escalating conflict, I want to know it’s for the right reasons, with clear goals and a solid strategy.

Amen. Especially if we're putting American lives in harm's way.

[USUC]

Your whatabout game is strong.

Perspective, not whataboutism.

[frank ryan]

Listen, Tucker is an idiot and has terrible beliefs. But i find it hilarious that the left sees him as Hitler capable of monstrous acts while I was just on Reddit and every post on the main page is just people calling for the murder of all CEOs and right coded entrepreneurs.

I'm going with you are exaggerating.

It's more than being an idiot. He is a propagandist. If you haven't, read up on the dominion lawsuit and his big part in it. No one is saying he is Hitler. He's more like Tokyo Rose. People's beliefs or misguided feelings about CEOS doesn't have much bearing on whether Tucker problem or not.

It's not about putting things into context. I think it's just reflexive bothsidism. That doesn't always apply. I'm not aware of prominent left-wing influencers who are calling for the murder of CEOs. So that isn't a great parallel.

[frank ryan]

Fair question. For me, the connection between Iraq and Ukraine isn’t about equating the two conflicts but about the need to stay skeptical of the narratives driving us into these commitments. Back during Iraq, I trusted what we were told about WMDs and the mission to spread democracy, and I was wrong. That whole experience led me to be more skeptical and open to those who question.

I get that Ukraine is a different situation. Russia’s invasion is a blatant act of aggression. My concern isn’t about whether Russia is in the wrong (they clearly are). It’s about whether we’re being honest and clear about what our involvement means. Are we defining what success looks like? Are we being transparent about the risks of escalation? And are we making sure this aligns with America’s broader interests, or are we just falling into a default position because we always oppose Russia?

I’m not saying we shouldn’t support Ukraine, but I think the skepticism that Iraq taught me is important here. If we’re sending resources and potentially escalating conflict, I want to know it’s for the right reasons, with clear goals and a solid strategy.

The alarm bells on Russia aren't coming from the far left, it's coming from moderates and allies. The far left thinks Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush etc are war criminals.

Problem is Russia is already going at the West. They are pushing out the French and Americans in Africa, and locking up resources. They've used Wagner to engage in military operations in Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Mali, Niger, Mozambique among others. They played a heavy hand in Libya and Sudan.

Russia has shown us who they are. Prior to the election very real news came out about a Russian plot to blow up planes bound for the US. Russia put a bounty on US soldiers in Afghanistan. They've blown up arms deports in the Czech Republican, assassinated a Bulgarian arms dealer, attempted to overthrow a pro-NATO government in Montenegro. They bolster succession movements whenever they can. Like Catalonia in Spain and New Caledonia in France.


It's not conspiratorial mumbo jumbo to encourage people to look into Russia's very public geopolitical doctrine. I think it's working. They looks to embolden and legitimize isolationist politicians. Feed extremism on both sides. They intentionally inflame racial divisions. Their intent has been to split the US from the other side of the Atlantic and divide the UK from the rest of Europe. The wanted the British out of the EU.

What scares me, and what I think was the game changer that emboldened Putin, is that Russia and China finally have an awkward alliance, and now do somethings in concert.

I don't think this is a case of just sit back and everything will calm down, I think failure to support a nation trying to hang on to their independence emboldens Putin. This isn't unique thinking. For Sweden and Finland to abandon neutrality and join NATO, something major happened. Something game-changing.

Diplomatically, in terms of soft power we are getting are ass-kicked by China and Russia. South Pacific island nations like Solomon Islands now have defense treaties with China, and countries like Micronesia, Palau and Tonga are being heavily lobbied and bribed to align with China.

They succeed in Ukraine, Moldova is next. Ukraine isn't Iraq. Abandoning Ukraine is more Nevill Chamberlin and less George Bush. It's not about spreading democracy and breaking a state and attempting to rework into a democratic fashion; it's about supporting a country that does not want to be consumed by their rapacious neighbor.

Russia's influence campaign is real, effective and not limited to the US. Just recently an Irish far left politician was outed for being on the Kremlin payroll.