The Mass Shooting Thread

[USUC]

interesting to be opposed to the holdings of brown, obergefell, gideon v wainwright, miranda, etc.

fair enough.

[old_gregg]

I am wholeheartedly against judicial reinterpretation of the constitution.

interesting to be opposed to the holdings of brown, obergefell, gideon v wainwright, miranda, etc.

[Jeff Lebowski]

No other stable democracy has had anything close to a 2nd amendment and a guaranteed right to a firearm.

I guess it comes down to what you want your gun control to look like. If you want restrictions on semi automatic rifles, does that include stopping the sale of and confiscation of them in private hands who bought them legally? That means the police, the FBI, the ATF, etc. will need to go door to door and forcibly take these from citizens. You don't see that as a potentially violent situation? Not only from gun nuts but from law enforcement who are known for their level headedness in tense situations? Semi automatic rifles are one of the most common guns in America. This isn't just randos in the sticks.

I am wholeheartedly against judicial reinterpretation of the constitution. But it has most certainly been done many times in the past. For much of the 20th century the court had reinterpreted the 2nd amendment from its original intent as you are suggesting (a discussion for another time). But this creates all sorts of volatility on its own as the parties will just try to change the court to interpret things as they prefer (see abortion debate).

I respect your stance and beliefs on this issue. I would nit-pick a bit on your suggestion that we currently have unfettered access to firearms, there are laws on the books. But the sheer amount of firearms in this country make this issue anything but simple. And a new generation of idealists won't change the problems if the belief is simply taking legal guns away.

You and I will pass on and the next generation - which has grown up on a steady diet of mass shootings and gun deaths - will have the guts and political will to make the change.

[USUC]

I hear this argument a lot, and, respectfully, I wonder where it comes from as nothing, like it has ever happened that I am aware of in any stable democracy that instituted gun control. Are you saying that it is an inevitable result of controlling guns? Or that it would be a direct result in the US due to the strong feelings about the 2nd amendment? Or something else?

No other stable democracy has had anything close to a 2nd amendment and a guaranteed right to a firearm.

I guess it comes down to what you want your gun control to look like. If you want restrictions on semi automatic rifles, does that include stopping the sale of and confiscation of them in private hands who bought them legally? That means the police, the FBI, the ATF, etc. will need to go door to door and forcibly take these from citizens. You don't see that as a potentially violent situation? Not only from gun nuts but from law enforcement who are known for their level headedness in tense situations? Semi automatic rifles are one of the most common guns in America. This isn't just randos in the sticks.

Yes, I mean either nullifying the amendment or a reinterpretation of the broad scope of the amendment (more likely).

This is pretty simple. As long as we believe that everyone should have unfettered access to guns, we will have non-stop gun violence, including kids getting slaughtered at schools.

I am wholeheartedly against judicial reinterpretation of the constitution. But it has most certainly been done many times in the past. For much of the 20th century the court had reinterpreted the 2nd amendment from its original intent as you are suggesting (a discussion for another time). But this creates all sorts of volatility on its own as the parties will just try to change the court to interpret things as they prefer (see abortion debate).

I respect your stance and beliefs on this issue. I would nit-pick a bit on your suggestion that we currently have unfettered access to firearms, there are laws on the books. But the sheer amount of firearms in this country make this issue anything but simple. And a new generation of idealists won't change the problems if the belief is simply taking legal guns away.

[Northwestcoug]

No guns for liberals... check the voting records to see if they voted for a democrat in the last 10 or 15 years.

LOL. You're a constant, I'll give you that.

[Uncle Ted]

Ted, what do you propose as 'better background checks'? And how are you going to keep the guns out of the wrong hands? I mean if this is a workable improvement, even if not a solution, let's hear it. Because nothing is working right now.

No guns for liberals... check the voting records to see if they voted for a democrat in the last 10 or 15 years.

[Northwestcoug]

Yes, better background checks... keep guns out of the insane's hands. But trying to ban AR-15s ain't going to happen until the 2nd amendment is revoked/amended... In the mean time, liberals need to stop focusing on gun violence that is happening in Texas and worry about the gun violence that happens in their own backyards every damn weekend.

Ted, what do you propose as 'better background checks'? And how are you going to keep the guns out of the wrong hands? I mean if this is a workable improvement, even if not a solution, let's hear it. Because nothing is working right now.

[Jeff Lebowski]

#whataboutchicago? #whataboutyourownshitholeyoubigdummy?

FIFY

My "shit hole" was just selected as the best state in the US by US News.

Lol @ Texas. #35.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...tates-rankings

[Uncle Ted]

Background checks are fine, but they won't make a dent. Don't kid yourself.

Yeah right, they are fine... It is the DoJ that F'ed up: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...oting-00090615


QUOTE=Jeff Lebowski;n2287695]
#whataboutchicago? #whataboutyourownshitholeyoubigdummy?[/QUOTE]

FIFY

[Jeff Lebowski]

I disagree that a massive overhaul of our gun laws will minimize these issues, and I believe it will make violence much more likely on a large and politically destabilizing level.

Huh?

But I guess I should ask what you mean by a massive overhaul. Do you mean amending the constitution to nullify the 2nd amendment? Do you mean turning over the court to reinterpret the 2nd amendment? How would severe restrictions be practically implemented?

Yes, I mean either nullifying the amendment or a reinterpretation of the broad scope of the amendment (more likely).

This is pretty simple. As long as we believe that everyone should have unfettered access to guns, we will have non-stop gun violence, including kids getting slaughtered at schools.

[Clark Addison]

I disagree that a massive overhaul of our gun laws will minimize these issues, and I believe it will make violence much more likely on a large and politically destabilizing level.

But I guess I should ask what you mean by a massive overhaul. Do you mean amending the constitution to nullify the 2nd amendment? Do you mean turning over the court to reinterpret the 2nd amendment? How would severe restrictions be practically implemented?

I hear this argument a lot, and, respectfully, I wonder where it comes from as nothing, like it has ever happened that I am aware of in any stable democracy that instituted gun control. Are you saying that it is an inevitable result of controlling guns? Or that it would be a direct result in the US due to the strong feelings about the 2nd amendment? Or something else?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes, better background checks... keep guns out of the insane's hands. But trying to ban AR-15s ain't going to happen until the 2nd amendment is revoked/amended...

Background checks are fine, but they won't make a dent. Don't kid yourself.

In the mean time, liberals need to stop focusing on gun violence that is happening in Texas and worry about the gun violence that happens in their own backyards every damn weekend.

#whataboutchicago?

[USUC]

All of the above.

I disagree that a massive overhaul of our gun laws will minimize these issues, and I believe it will make violence much more likely on a large and politically destabilizing level.

But I guess I should ask what you mean by a massive overhaul. Do you mean amending the constitution to nullify the 2nd amendment? Do you mean turning over the court to reinterpret the 2nd amendment? How would severe restrictions be practically implemented?

[Uncle Ted]

The ONLY thing that will curtail mass shootings and gun violence is a massive overhaul of our gun laws with severe restrictions on gun ownership/licensing/etc. I don't think we have the political will to do that yet, but I think the next generation will.

Yes, better background checks... keep guns out of the insane's hands. But trying to ban AR-15s ain't going to happen until the 2nd amendment is revoked/amended... In the mean time, liberals need to stop focusing on gun violence that is happening in Texas and worry about the gun violence that happens in their own backyards every damn weekend.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What type of mass shootings are we talking about here? The school shooter or the inner city crime related shootings?

All of the above.