Foreign LDS and their political views...

[Ma'ake]

I flew from Houston to SLC last night next to a 40-something woman from the UK, who was coming to Utah for a family wedding. She's a 2nd generation Mormon, very devout, never been to the US before. Clearly excited for the wedding and to be coming to Utah, she was bubbling. She was especially proud of her two missionary sons and told me all about them, how much they have grown up, etc.

We didn't spend much time talking about politics, but I was struck by her general views which would probably place her as a leftist-marxist here in Utah. She said "yes, I've heard the politics are very, very far right".

She claimed to be "baffled" by the healthcare debate here. "Aren't we all in this thing together? Why wouldn't we want to ensure a standard of care for everyone?" I tried to explain to her the conservative mindset, that government is not just inefficient, but is in fact immoral, and she cut me off with "well, isn't it immoral to have people who are not able to get the basic care they need?"

[Honest folks, I wasn't bashing the conservative / libertarian view... just trying to explain it to somebody who was very unfamiliar with the rightist perspective.]

I tried to explain to her the fairly common view that taxes are theft, but she'd have none of it, explaining that her brother (who lives in Provo) had told them of sunday driving "tours" looking at some of the very large homes on the east side of Provo, SL County, Bountiful.

"If we tax the rich to make sure everyone is basically taken care of it seems to me this is right in line with what the gospel preaches. It all makes sense to me".

Then we talked some about guns and how she was genuinely concerned that America must be a violent place if we need all those guns to protect ourselves. I tried to explain to her that the 2nd Amendment is also viewed as a means to topple our own government, should the need arise. She thought I was joking with her. (We didn't talk about guns anymore after that.)

I'm passing along her opinions for interest here, but I would be remiss to not point out that the main thrust of her conversation with me was her excitement at coming to Utah and being around so many saints, and her pride at what her sons were doing and her evident LDS faith. She was beaming, and very smart.

But she laughed at the politics and said her brother warned her that in Utah there are certain things that shouldn't be discussed because it can cause divisiveness. "My brother told me he always ends up on the 'wrong' side of any political conversation, so he said the best thing to do is to keep your mouth shut".

It was an interesting conversation.

[Clark Addison]

I flew from Houston to SLC last night next to a 40-something woman from the UK, who was coming to Utah for a family wedding. She's a 2nd generation Mormon, very devout, never been to the US before. Clearly excited for the wedding and to be coming to Utah, she was bubbling. She was especially proud of her two missionary sons and told me all about them, how much they have grown up, etc.

We didn't spend much time talking about politics, but I was struck by her general views which would probably place her as a leftist-marxist here in Utah. She said "yes, I've heard the politics are very, very far right".

She claimed to be "baffled" by the healthcare debate here. "Aren't we all in this thing together? Why wouldn't we want to ensure a standard of care for everyone?" I tried to explain to her the conservative mindset, that government is not just inefficient, but is in fact immoral, and she cut me off with "well, isn't it immoral to have people who are not able to get the basic care they need?"

[Honest folks, I wasn't bashing the conservative / libertarian view... just trying to explain it to somebody who was very unfamiliar with the rightist perspective.]

I tried to explain to her the fairly common view that taxes are theft, but she'd have none of it, explaining that her brother (who lives in Provo) had told them of sunday driving "tours" looking at some of the very large homes on the east side of Provo, SL County, Bountiful.

"If we tax the rich to make sure everyone is basically taken care of it seems to me this is right in line with what the gospel preaches. It all makes sense to me".

Then we talked some about guns and how she was genuinely concerned that America must be a violent place if we need all those guns to protect ourselves. I tried to explain to her that the 2nd Amendment is also viewed as a means to topple our own government, should the need arise. She thought I was joking with her. (We didn't talk about guns anymore after that.)

I'm passing along her opinions for interest here, but I would be remiss to not point out that the main thrust of her conversation with me was her excitement at coming to Utah and being around so many saints, and her pride at what her sons were doing and her evident LDS faith. She was beaming, and very smart.

But she laughed at the politics and said her brother warned her that in Utah there are certain things that shouldn't be discussed because it can cause divisiveness. "My brother told me he always ends up on the 'wrong' side of any political conversation, so he said the best thing to do is to keep your mouth shut".

It was an interesting conversation.

It is interesting that all of us, despite our political leanings, feel they are perfectly aligned with the gospel.

[Goatnapper'96]

It is interesting that all of us, despite our political leanings, feel they are perfectly aligned with the gospel.

That is the part that makes me chuckle as well. Imagine if Hugh B. Brown had been the Prophet instead of ETB.

I think humans, by nature, create things in their own image and many feel the need to believe all of their beliefs have God's mutual approbation.

I have a burning testimony about the falsies and that God doesn't want the US to become like England. I do appreciate Ma'ake forcing himself to so honestly play devil's advocate on behalf of me and my conservative brethren and offer such compelling arguments from the right. I am touched, I tell you!

[Sullyute]

That is the part that makes me chuckle as well. Imagine if Hugh B. Brown had been the Prophet instead of ETB.

I have a burning testimony about the falsies and that God doesn't want the US to become like England.

So is this why God does not call more foreign members to be apostles because he wants to maintain a conservative agenda?

[Uncle Ted]

Some questions to ask your new UK friend...

Why is it people in the church still believe that even though the attempt to live the law of consecration in these latter days wasn't successful it would work somehow if the government forced everyone to live it?

Why do Europe's citizens still pay a significant amount of their own health care costs out of pocket even a huge of their taxes towards their government system?

Why in the UK you are not even allowed to defend yourself and your family even with a common kitchen knife?

As for the large homes, especially in places like Utah, you should point out that it seems that many people live beyond their means party due because of people in the government like Barney pushing for home ownership for everyone.

[Indy Coug]

I didn't talk politics a lot on my mission in England, but it seemed that Margaret Thatcher was almost universally hated by LDS members there. While I never took sides, after awhile, I would ask them if they bothered to vote or not because even though everyone I knew hated her, she kept getting re-elected.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Some questions to ask your new UK friend...

Why is it people in the church still believe that even though the attempt to live the law of consecration in these latter days wasn't successful it would work somehow if the government forced everyone to live it?

Why do Europe's citizens still pay a significant amount of their own health care costs out of pocket even a huge of their taxes towards their government system?

Why in the UK you are not even allowed to defend yourself and your family even with a common kitchen knife?

As for the large homes, especially in places like Utah, you should point out that it seems that many people live beyond their means party due because of people in the government like Barney pushing for home ownership for everyone.

Seek professional help.

[KillerDog]

I think the correlation between politics and religion exists because politics is a type of religion and religion is a type of politics.

[Indy Coug]

It's been made very clear numerous times that the ultimate destiny of the church is a global theocracy.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Utah voted for Truman in 48 and Johnson in 64. The hippie movement and the resulting period from the late 60s through the 70s is what turned the church into political conservatives.

Between 1900 and 1992, Utah had voted for the winning presidential candidate all but three times: 1912, 1960 and 1976. 60 and 76 were two of the closest elections ever and 1912 was that loopy three party election between Taft, Wilson and Roosevelt.

Prior to the late 60s or 70s, no political party had a monopoly over socially conservative causes. Issues like ending slavery was the sole province of the Republicans but had since become moot. Civil Rights were a mixed bag because the GOP didn't particularly champion them but didn't impede them either while the Democrats either championed them or actively opposed the cause. I'm not sure if, say, Margaret Thatcher's party comes down on one side of socially conservative issues (they probably don't).

[il Padrino Ute]

Seek professional help.

Why? Those are legitimate questions.

[creekster]

Utah voted for Truman in 48 and Johnson in 64. The hippie movement and the resulting period from the late 60s through the 70s is what turned the church into political conservatives.

Between 1900 and 1992, Utah had voted for the winning presidential candidate all but three times: 1912, 1960 and 1976. 60 and 76 were two of the closest elections ever and 1912 was that loopy three party election between Taft, Wilson and Roosevelt.

Prior to the late 60s or 70s, no political party had a monopoly over socially conservative causes. Issues like ending slavery was the sole province of the Republicans but had since become moot. Civil Rights were a mixed bag because the GOP didn't particularly champion them but didn't impede them either while the Democrats either championed them or actively opposed the cause. I'm not sure if, say, Margaret Thatcher's party comes down on one side of socially conservative issues (they probably don't).

When i was a kid in Utah the senior senator was Frank Moss, a liberal Democrat, and the governor was our beloved Calvin Rampton, also a democrat.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Why? Those are legitimate questions.

Technically, they were questions. Rhetorically, they were indignant judgments masquerading as questions.

You've experieced that sort of thing before, have you not? I mean, you have read headlines and listened to talk radio?

See, even I can do it!

[il Padrino Ute]

Technically, they were questions. Rhetorically, they were indignant judgments masquerading as questions.

You've experieced that sort of thing before, have you not? I mean, you have read headlines and listened to talk radio?

See, even I can do it!

Were they more of an indignant judgment than being told to seek professional help?

[Sleeping in EQ]

Were they more of an indignant judgment than being told to seek professional help?

See, now you've got the hang of it.