What if... BYU and the Church cut ties?

[beefytee]

Lately I have been wondering if it might be better for BYU (and the church) to go out on its own and not have to have the church answer for it.

I know it won't happen anytime soon, but the way I would see it happening is that the BOT is transitioned to non General Authorities and they start running things. Of course church funding would also be cut.

I assume they would keep many of the LDS standards (i.e. not alcohol/coffee/tea/cigarettes on campus), but could have more flexibility. They could put the academic freedom issues to rest. They wouldn't have to worry about BYU bringing bad PR to the church. I could foresee them doing away with several aspects of the honor code. e.g. no beards. This would mean the school could avoid any gay rights issues that may be coming in the future similar to those experienced during the civil rights movement. They could simply claim that it isn't the university right or place to deal with such a thing.

The biggest downsides:

Tuition -- We would likely see tuition prices increase to the level of other private institutions like TCU and USC.

The churches flexibility -- Being a Canadian, I've heard that one of the few ways that the church is able to export Canadian tithing funds is to use it towards BYU. There are also other consideration like the new broadcasting channels being set up like BYU TV Internation.

There are several others cases were the two institutions can lean on each other.

Would your support for BYU likely increase or decrease if it were to split from the LDS church?

[All-American]

I think BYU benefits from its relationship with the church and the church benefits from its relationship with BYU. Even if the problems inherent with the association could not be addressed without severing ties (and I don't think that this is the case), they don't outweigh the respective benefits. To disassociate would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You say that the Church would, if ties were to be severed, no longer have to worry about the bad PR which BYU might bring. I don't think the Church needs to be ashamed of BYU and I don't think BYU needs to be ashamed of the church.

[pellegrino]

As delightful as that would be, the church will never do it. I don't have the reference, but a close friend in the sociology dept. at BYU has told me of surveys and studies that have been done to determine what keeps people active in the church through their twenties and into later adult life, and the primary factor was whether or not they had attended BYU. As long as BYU is a factor in keeping people in the fold they will keep things the way they are.

[beefytee]

I think BYU benefits from its relationship with the church and the church benefits from its relationship with BYU. Even if the problems inherent with the association could not be addressed without severing ties (and I don't think that this is the case), they don't outweigh the respective benefits. To disassociate would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You say that the Church would, if ties were to be severed, no longer have to worry about the bad PR which BYU might bring. I don't think the Church needs to be ashamed of BYU and I don't think BYU needs to be ashamed of the church.

What do you think the biggest benefits for both institutions are?

[statman]

What do you think the biggest benefits for both institutions are?

BYU simply doesn't exist without the Church. Not in its current form. If students had to pay what it cost (~$30K per year is what similar institutions charge), why would people choose to attend?

From the Church's standpoint, BYU exists because it allows faithful members to get lifelong career skills for reltively little money. And they ensure that the graduates have at least a working understanding of the actual doctrine and teachings of the church, plus a lot of grads will come out with actual church leadership experience - in RS and EQ presidencies & bishoprics, having to spend 10+ hours a week in church work, etc. These grads become the core of ward YM/YW/RS/Primary/bishopric leadership over the next 10-15 years, and stake leadership thereafter.

Having similar gospel instruction and leadership possibilities at other schools is through institute and through other school's student wards is certainly not impossible, but at BYU, participation in religious instruction and religious services is MANDATED. Why leave up to chance, wht you can force? Having BYU guarantees that the church has a couple thousand potential leaders graduating each year - leaders fairly well trained in doctrine and with fairly good leadership experience under their belt...

[YOhio]

They would need to rename it, maybe Emma Smith University.

[il Padrino Ute]

As delightful as that would be, the church will never do it. I don't have the reference, but a close friend in the sociology dept. at BYU has told me of surveys and studies that have been done to determine what keeps people active in the church through their twenties and into later adult life, and the primary factor was whether or not they had attended BYU. As long as BYU is a factor in keeping people in the fold they will keep things the way they are.

Did your friend specify who were the subject of these surveys and studies? My sample is too small to prove anything, but most of my friends who were raised LDS didn't go to BYU and the majority of them were active during their twenties and are active today as well.

[statman]

Did your friend specify who were the subject of these surveys and studies? My sample is too small to prove anything, but most of my friends who were raised LDS didn't go to BYU and the majority of them were active during their twenties and are active today as well.

I just heard on Sunday a report from the Church (not sure where the number comes from, but it was quoted in stake priesthood meeting and then again in our HC's talk in Sacrament Meeting): Only 40% of those who are "active" as deacons will be "active" as 22 year old males.

That seems about right...

[PaloAltoCougar]

They would need to rename it, maybe Emma Smith University.

This is a great idea. We could change our mascot to The Fighting Enigmas.

[beefytee]

As delightful as that would be, the church will never do it. I don't have the reference, but a close friend in the sociology dept. at BYU has told me of surveys and studies that have been done to determine what keeps people active in the church through their twenties and into later adult life, and the primary factor was whether or not they had attended BYU. As long as BYU is a factor in keeping people in the fold they will keep things the way they are.

I don't know that this would have to change if the BOT changed and tuition went up.

In fact, there is a school in Virginia that is not church owned but helping to raise active members. http://svu.edu/

[statman]

I don't know that this would have to change if the BOT changed and tuition went up.

In fact, there is a school in Virginia that is not church owned but helping to raise active members. http://svu.edu/

With under 1000 students - which shows how 'strong' the demand is for expensive, adequate-but-not-exemplary education with a religious bent...

[il Padrino Ute]

I just heard on Sunday a report from the Church (not sure where the number comes from, but it was quoted in stake priesthood meeting and then again in our HC's talk in Sacrament Meeting): Only 40% of those who are "active" as deacons will be "active" as 22 year old males.

That seems about right...

I'm sure it is right. I really only had a small number of what I would call friends and as I say, it's too small for it to prove anything.

[beefytee]

I'm sure it is right. I really only had a small number of what I would call friends and as I say, it's too small for it to prove anything.

I think I found a reference to that:

For example, a study prepared by Professor Chadwick at Brigham Young University evidenced that returned missionaries attending Brigham Young University were significantly more likely to be tithing faithful after graduation than their counterparts who attended secular institutions.

http://www.svu.edu/pdf/about/history...-education.pdf

[Portland Ute]

I think I found a reference to that:



http://www.svu.edu/pdf/about/history...-education.pdf

So, a professor at...Brigham Young University...issues a report stating that kids that go attend...Brigham Young University...
benefit from attending Brigham Young University.

Is anyone surprised that BYU issues a report which paints BYU in a positive light?

I wouldn't consider this study/report definitive because it is highly biased.

[Uncle Ted]

I think I found a reference to that:



http://www.svu.edu/pdf/about/history...-education.pdf

It seems that BYU takes a good chuck of tithing funds to run. Out of the $115mm that the LDS church in Canada spent on "qualified donees" (ward budgets and such) about $103mm (nearly 90%) of it went to BYU.

The total revenue for the LDS church of Canada is $161mm.