Mosque being built at Ground Zero

[YOhio]

I think the mosque states, unequivocably, that the U.S. is not what the terrorists believe it to be.

I understand your analogy, but I don't agree with it. The LDS Church is not parallel with Islam. The people who will worship and socialize in the Islamic Center near ground zero have no more in common with the 9/11 terrorists than a mainline Christian has with Ervil Lebaron.

This Islamic center, and other centers like it, can help American muslims integrate with, and contribute to, American society at large. The day when Muslim financiers and academics get together and found an Islamic university in the U.S. will also help. I see the desire to build Islamic centers as a step in the right direction for everyone, and this center in particular can help us all move forward, and against terrorism.

I'd like to see conservatives stop playing the "sensitivity" PC card on this. There's a bigger picture here.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Yeah, now that I see that LA Ute has made a similar point I completely disavow my use of the MMM parallel. I apologize to all for that.

I'm not sure the U.S. could do any more to convince the terrorists that we're not what they believe us to be. There are thousands of mosques scattered throughout our fruited plains, yet the contempt is still there. Plopping another one down near GZ will perhaps dissuade some in their notions, but it could embolden others in theirs.

What I do like is the concept of the Islamic Center taking on a YMCA/JCC model. An inclusive center for family, recreation and activity with a de-emphasis on religion could go a long way in the PR battle Islam is waging.

[Welsh]

"The president muddled his message. Does he not grasp that questioning the "wisdom" of the mosque's placement is predicated on thinking that 9/11 was a Muslim crime? Does he not understand that the issue here is religious prejudice, not zoning? The answer, of course, is that he does. But unlike Henry Clay, he would rather be president than right . . .

". . .having once again gotten high praise for so very little, he went to bed a panicked man and reached, trembling, some hours later, for a political morning-after pill to take back some of what he had said. Whew, for a moment there he was pregnant with principle."

Ouch.

[wuapinmon]

I really don't care about sensitivity in this matter. I think that the 1st Amendment and the rights of property owners apply to everyone. Is it insensitive? Maybe, but it's their right to build on their property (I'm assuming they own it).

I didn't buy a home with an HOA precisely because I don't want anyone who isn't elected for my political district telling me what I can and can't do with my property, and even then...

[byu71]

I really don't care about sensitivity in this matter. I think that the 2nd Amendment and the rights of property owners apply to everyone. Is it insensitive? Maybe, but it's their right to build on their property (I'm assuming they own it).

I didn't buy a home with an HOA precisely because I don't want anyone who isn't elected for my political district telling me what I can and can't do with my property, and even then...

I won't accuse you of being a progressive, because I am not sure you are. If you were though, I find it highly amusing the progressive's regard for property rights in this issue, but totaly disregard when it comes to other issues involving the government and it's rights over property.

[Jacob]

I really don't care about sensitivity in this matter. I think that the 2nd Amendment and the rights of property owners apply to everyone. Is it insensitive? Maybe, but it's their right to build on their property (I'm assuming they own it).
.

Wait a minute. Now your are encouraging these terrorists to pack heat?

[wuapinmon]

Wait a minute. Now your are encouraging these terrorists to pack heat?

A typo. I meant the 1st. But, I do think that the 2nd Amendment applies to everyone.

[CJF]

I think the mosque states, unequivocably, that the U.S. is not what the terrorists believe it to be.

I understand your analogy, but I don't agree with it. The LDS Church is not parallel with Islam. The people who will worship and socialize in the Islamic Center near ground zero have no more in common with the 9/11 terrorists than a mainline Christian has with Ervil Lebaron.

This Islamic center, and other centers like it, can help American muslims integrate with, and contribute to, American society at large. The day when Muslim financiers and academics get together and found an Islamic university in the U.S. will also help. I see the desire to build Islamic centers as a step in the right direction for everyone, and this center in particular can help us all move forward, and against terrorism.

I'd like to see conservatives stop playing the "sensitivity" PC card on this. There's a bigger picture here.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Is there no other locations in all of Manhattan that this center could be built? Is there a serious lack of mosques in NYC that Islamic nation is in desperate need of this location? I agree with the majority of your post. I just think this location will hurt the Islamic cause more than help it.

[wuapinmon]

I won't accuse you of being a progressive, because I am not sure you are. If you were though, I find it highly amusing the progressive's regard for property rights in this issue, but totaly disregard when it comes to other issues involving the government and it's rights over property.

From my blog:

Friday, September 09, 2005
Pond ripples from Kelo v. City of New London
Remember a couple of months ago when the Supreme Court ruled in Kelo v. City of New London that imminent domain could be invoked in order to seize private property for commercial development and tax revenue increases? Think about the potential effects that this ruling could have in New Orleans, especially in the impoverished and most likely destroyed Ninth Ward and Lower Ninth Ward. The aftermath of that decision may rear its ugly head in New Orleans. Hopefully the state legislature will step in and either pass a law prohibiting that scenario, or amend the constitution to forever outlaw it. Can you imagine the feeling of dread if you knew that not only had you lost your home, your possessions, possibly loved ones, but that also some giant corporation could come in and buy the land out from under your feet with the government's approval.

and

Friday, June 24, 2005
This is just perfect!
Combining the news making news and Tom Cruise into one story takes special talent. CNN reports that Tom Cruise and Matt Lauer argue on the Today Show. http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/0....ap/index.html

It's enough to make you wish for something else big to happen so that the media will change the subject. I seriously cannot believe that the Supreme Court's decision yesterday hasn't started a shitstorm of protests. This is something that I would be willing to go to a rally against it. We should have a jazz funeral for the Constitution here in New Orleans. Genocide, Constitutional Anschluss, or Matt Lauer asking Tom Crusie questions about Ritalin and Scientology.....which one should we lead with???

I think Neil Boortz is an ass, but his description of the dangers of this Supreme Court Decision are spot on for real. Read it with a grain of salt, as he can be a hatemonger when he wants to be, and he loves the sound of his own voice.

http://boortz.com/nuze/200506/062420...roperty_rights

I maintain that I am a left-leaning moderate. I always think that people have rights to their property save in instances where the public domain is truly public and needed and properly compensated, including intangibles.

[oxcoug]

Yeah, now that I see that LA Ute has made a similar point I completely disavow my use of the MMM parallel. I apologize to all for that.

I'm not sure the U.S. could do any more to convince the terrorists that we're not what they believe us to be. There are thousands of mosques scattered throughout our fruited plains, yet the contempt is still there. Plopping another one down near GZ will perhaps dissuade some in their notions, but it could embolden others in theirs.

What I do like is the concept of the Islamic Center taking on a YMCA/JCC model. An inclusive center for family, recreation and activity with a de-emphasis on religion could go a long way in the PR battle Islam is waging.

I can see the value in that and am feeling pretty ambivalent about the whole thing myself.

I spend half my month here in NYC (looking at the midtown east skyline right now) and many of the people I spend time w/ are lifetime New Yorkers, most of them solidly left of center on social and religious issues.

But so far everyone I talk to is either flatly opposed or ambivalent themselves.

A couple of things that feel obvious to me:
1. The "religious freedom" argument is feeble - no one opposing the construction of this building is advocating any reduction in the freedom of Muslims to practice their religion
2. The ideal thing for the Muslims involved here to propose at the site - if their objectives are as ecumenical as they claim they are - would be an inter-religious facility dedicated to building tolerance by fostering interaction. I think what makes a lot of the opponents uncomfortable are the PR permutations of this building which can't be controlled - the perception that can be played (and certainly will be played) among fundamentalist Muslims that an American icon was laid low and a monument to global Islam was raised beside it. So if they want to build bridges for Islam, why not make the center something that operates under an Islamic entity but is designed to encourage interaction between people of widely differing religious backgrounds?

[dabrockster]

Update:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...enter-1.308426

[byu71]

Update:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...enter-1.308426

If the plans are abandoned, do you think Obama will come out and take credit for getting someone to show some empathy. He tries to take credit for everything.

I think if he did he would get a large round of laughter. Large unless you are watching the TV networks except Fox.

[dabrockster]

If the plans are abandoned, do you think Obama will come out and take credit for getting someone to show some empathy. He tries to take credit for everything.

I think if he did he would get a large round of laughter. Large unless you are watching the TV networks except Fox.

The fact the article quoted Obama irritates me. And I think undermines what this gesture means by the developer/Muslim group..

[Surfah]

I still don't understand how the mosque can get fast tracked while St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, right across the street from Ground Zero that was destroyed in the attacks, is being blocked or at least held up by the Port Authority to being rebuilt.

[Portland Ute]

I still don't understand how the mosque can get fast tracked while St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, right across the street from Ground Zero that was destroyed in the attacks, is being blocked or at least held up by the Port Authority to being rebuilt.

I'm curious to hear more about this. That's crazy.

[landpoke]

I still don't understand how the mosque can get fast tracked while St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, right across the street from Ground Zero that was destroyed in the attacks, is being blocked or at least held up by the Port Authority to being rebuilt.

Dude, trust me. You don't want to let the Greeks in.