No innocents excuted under modern death-penalty system

[optimomojo]

000

[All-American]

"contrary to urban legend, there is no credible example of any innocent person executed in this country under the modern death-penalty system"

1998 WSJ article by Paul G. Cassell

http://repealtherepeal.org/exec_innocent.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_G._Cassell

Professor Cassell taught my criminal law procedure class. He's an excellent man of character and intelligence.

He also makes a compelling argument for reversing Miranda warnings:

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st218

But there have been a big number of people yanked off of death row. Also, there's less of a motivation to investigate the case where a defendant is no longer able to assist in his case by reason of being dead.

But just for fun, let's assume that for now, every capital punishment case has ended correctly, and only guilty parties have ever gotten the needle. How long is that going to last? It's an imperfect system with imperfect people running it. If there hasn't been an error yet, there will be soon enough.

The question isn't whether or not there have been any errors. The question is how many errors are we willing to tolerate in order to keep the death penalty, and whether we can be sure that we are under that amount.

[I.J. Reilly]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?currentPage=all

[Maximus]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

Tall about a novel

[All-American]

Reference big, please.
But even so, that comment support's Cassell's point...no innocent death under the current system.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty

And that doesn't support Cassell's point. That only shows that a substantial number of people who are sentenced to death are actually innocent. We know how many people have been exonerated. We do not know how many have not. But the bigger the number of actually innocent people is, the more likely it is that somebody might slip through the cracks. You could no more assume that because 64,000 people went to the game on Saturday that everybody who wanted to be there made it.

An equally important question is how many innocent victims are killed because the justice system isn't stringent enough? As Cassell states in the article: "The Bureau of Justice Statistics has found that of 52,000 inmates serving time for homicide, more than 800 had previously been convicted of murder. That sounds like a system collapsing under the weight of its own mistakes --and innocent people dying as a result."

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. So let's talk about death penalty and deterrence.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates#stateswithvwithout

I suppose a strictly utilitarian argument would be that for the death penalty to be efficient, every wrongful execution should be offset by a wrongful death avoided. I would entertain an argument that would shift this calculus by considering the cost of innocent blood on the hands of the state, but that's just me.

So are we meeting that expectation?

[grapevine]

Innocent people are killed in transportation, Innocent people are killed in industrial accidents. Do we not use them since innocent people are killed.

There are many people that we know are guilty that are on death row, ANd if someone knew they would be dead for murder much fewer innocent people would be dead. That can be backed up by several scriptures.

[CardiacCoug]

There are many people that we know are guilty that are on death row, ANd if someone knew they would be dead for murder much fewer innocent people would be dead. That can be backed up by several scriptures.

Nice.

[CardiacCoug]

[FONT=TimesNewRoman][SIZE=2][FONT=TimesNewRoman][SIZE=2][LEFT]"contrary to urban legend, there is no credible example of any innocent person executed in this country under the modern death-penalty system"

You're believing a fantasy if you think an innocent person has never been executed.

Well over 100 people have been exonerated after being sentenced to be executed. Many of those were exonerated by DNA evidence or other equally conclusive evidence that they were innocent.

It defies logic to believe that there has never been an innocent person who was put to death in this country. I guess when you were in school you were fond of choosing answers including the words ALWAYS and NEVER on multiple choice tests. You should know that those answers are usually wrong.

[RobinFinderson]

No, but it's no fantasy that you are a prick. Congratulations, you are doctor and a smart-ass. How original.



You mean like the LSAT exam that got me into a top quartile law school? Or the bar exam? That's just an ungracious and childish response.

Whoa, SOP, back up dude! These kinds of posts linger in people's memory for years. CUF can be pretty cool. No need to strap dynamite to your waist. Until you find your legs, just keep it cool.

[Indy Coug]

No, but it's no fantasy that you are a prick. Congratulations, you are doctor and a smart-ass. How original.



You mean like the LSAT exam that got me into a top quartile law school? Or the bar exam? That's just an ungracious and childish response.

SOP, having had my share of run-ins with some of these same guys over the years, I am still taken aback by how fast you are getting worked up in this forum.

Lighten up, Francis.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Whoa, SOP, back up dude! These kinds of posts linger in people's memory for years. CUF can be pretty cool. No need to strap dynamite to your waist. Until you find your legs, just keep it cool.

This is all spawned by MW2 scorn.

[Babs]

Whoa, SOP, back up dude! These kinds of posts linger in people's memory for years. CUF can be pretty cool. No need to strap dynamite to your waist. Until you find your legs, just keep it cool.

not to mention this is not the kind of place where you want to start up with LSAT smack.

[UtahDan]

The question isn't whether or not there have been any errors. The question is how many errors are we willing to tolerate in order to keep the death penalty, and whether we can be sure that we are under that amount.

Don't anyone mistake me as taking up SOP's argument here. But this point prompts me to wonder whether we should do away with life in prison for the same reason. Death penalty opponents frequently argue that life in prison is actually a worse punishment than death. If true, how many people have to go through the torture of a whole life behind bars having been falsely accused to say it is not worth it. Many, many people who have been sentenced to life in prison have been freed when new evidence came to light. What does that argue for, maximum of 20 years sentences? I don't know.

Just a thought exercise.

[UtahDan]

Someone is having a hard time playing nicely with others.

[CardiacCoug]

No, but it's no fantasy that you are a prick. Congratulations, you are doctor and a smart-ass. How original.

You mean like the LSAT exam that got me into a top quartile law school? Or the bar exam? That's just an ungracious and childish response.

Sorry you took my post as a personal insult. That wasn't how I meant it.

I was just trying to point out that usually when you say that something has NEVER happened or that something is ALWAYS the case, you are wrong or will eventually be wrong. Does that make sense?

Congratulations on going to a top quartile law school. Impressive. Good luck with that.