Early Marijuana Use Increases Psychosis Risk in Young Adults

[myboynoah]

Study looks at cannabis-psychosis association in sibling pairs to minimize confounding variables

Abstract

Full text

[RobinFinderson]

As perhaps the board's most active supporter of MJ legalization, I think it should go without saying that ingesting plants is never a risk-free behavior. Ultimately the only question should be this -- in a country that values freedom, are the risks associated with a behavior sufficiently localized to the individual so that the choice should remain a matter of personal choice, or are the externalities significant enough to make it something worth restricting? As long as we have dangerous behaviors like drinking, driving (though not drinking and driving), and professional sports like football and boxing on the 'personal choice' side of the equation, it will be hard to argue that MJ use should be seriously restricted.

That said, the report is not very conclusive. The following quote comes from the full article:

MEASUREMENT OF POTENTIAL CONFOUNDERS AND OTHER EXPLANATORY FACTORS

It is feasible that early psychotic-like experiences could influence both subsequent cannabis use and psychosis-related outcomes at the 21-year follow-up. At the 14-year follow-up, 2 items from the Youth Self-Report20 were chosen for their face validity as psychotic-like experiences: "I hear sounds or voices that other people think aren't there" and "I see things that other people think aren't there." Based on this same cohort, we previously reported that these items were associated with both an increased risk of nonaffective psychosis25 and high scores on the PDI26 at the 21-year follow-up. Subjects were dichotomized into those who responded "never" vs "sometimes" or "often."

In other words, people with psychotic tendencies may experience higher than average interest in MJ, and the MJ is not necessarily causing those psychotic tendencies.

But I think it is worth noting that the title of this thread is technically incorrect. Early MJ use is not shown to INCREASE psychosis risk in young adults. Early MJ us is shown to be ASSOCIATED with psychosis risk in young adults. Is this really surprising? Think of all of the mentally ill people you have ever known... didn't they also tend to be the folks most likely to use drugs?

[myboynoah]

As perhaps the board's most active supporter of MJ legalization, I think it should go without saying that ingesting plants is never a risk-free behavior. Ultimately the only question should be this -- in a country that values freedom, are the risks associated with a behavior sufficiently localized to the individual so that the choice should remain a matter of personal choice, or are the externalities significant enough to make it something worth restricting? As long as we have dangerous behaviors like drinking, driving (though not drinking and driving), and professional sports like football and boxing on the 'personal choice' side of the equation, it will be hard to argue that MJ use should be seriously restricted.

It's not that difficult for me. If maintaining restrictions on certain behaviors will decrease costly negative consequences, then I can be persuaded to maintain those restrictions.

That said, the report is not very conclusive. The following quote comes from the full article:

In other words, people with psychotic tendencies may experience higher than average interest in MJ, and the MJ is not necessarily causing those psychotic tendencies.

But I think it is worth noting that the title of this thread is technically incorrect. Early MJ use is not shown to INCREASE psychosis risk in young adults. Early MJ us is shown to be ASSOCIATED with psychosis risk in young adults. Is this really surprising? Think of all of the mentally ill people you have ever known... didn't they also tend to be the folks most likely to use drugs?

The study acknowledges and takes into account that and other possible confounders. Yet the conclusions confirm what has been found in other studies on the subjuect.

[RobinFinderson]

It's not that difficult for me. If maintaining restrictions on certain behaviors will decrease costly negative consequences, then I can be persuaded to maintain those restrictions.

This is philosophically in line with all of the great dictators in history. Other people's freedom has always been a personal inconvenience, but freedom's true believers put up with it.

First they came for the MJ smokers, and I didn't speak up because I didn't use.
Then they jailed the pornographers, and I stayed quiet and quite frankly didn't care.
When they rounded up the adulterers I felt a small twinge, for though I hadn't cheated, there was some flirty office chat that that had set my mind to wander.
And then they came for Division I College Football, and when I raised my fists to oppose them, I raised them alone...

[myboynoah]

This is philosophically in line with all of the great dictators in history. Other people's freedom has always been a personal inconvenience, but freedom's true believers put up with it.

First they came for the MJ smokers, and I didn't speak up because I didn't use.
Then they jailed the pornographers, and I stayed quiet and quite frankly didn't care.
When they rounded up the adulterers I felt a small twinge, for though I hadn't cheated, there was some flirty office chat that that had set my mind to wander.
And then they came for Division I College Football, and when I raised my fists to oppose them, I raised them alone...

That made me laugh.

By "great," I'm assuming you mean "really awesomely cool."

[RobinFinderson]

That made me laugh.

By "great," I'm assuming you mean "really awesomely cool."

Then maybe this will make you laugh too... another possible explanation for the results of this study is that people choose to self-medicate to deal with the symptoms of their psychosis. In this case the MJ could be used for its legitimate medicinal properties, even though the drug itself is illegal. This wouldn't even need to be happening consciously to be a possibility. In the same way that some people theorize that pregnant women sometimes develop cravings for dirt and chalk because they need some mineral in the dirt to contribute to the development of the fetus, maybe people with psychosis naturally gravitate to weed. Why do you think our species evolved to have cannabinoid receptors if our bodies weren't designed to use it?

[myboynoah]

Then maybe this will make you laugh too... another possible explanation for the results of this study is that people choose to self-medicate to deal with the symptoms of their psychosis. In this case the MJ could be used for its legitimate medicinal properties, even though the drug itself is illegal. This wouldn't even need to be happening consciously to be a possibility. In the same way that some people theorize that pregnant women sometimes develop cravings for dirt and chalk because they need some mineral in the dirt to contribute to the development of the fetus, maybe people with psychosis naturally gravitate to weed. Why do you think our species evolved to have cannabinoid receptors if our bodies weren't designed to use it?

Fail. That didn't make me laugh at all.

[RobinFinderson]

Fail. That didn't make me laugh at all.

It was a pretty terrible joke. I'll have to try harder.

[RobinFinderson]

*Ahem*

To all of the folks who would have argued in favor of MBN's reading of this recent study, but who opted not to join in to the conversation because you were utterly persuaded by the power of my scintillating arguments, I salute you!

[statman]

... it is worth noting that the title of this thread is technically incorrect. Early MJ use is not shown to INCREASE psychosis risk in young adults. Early MJ us is shown to be ASSOCIATED with psychosis risk in young adults...

Bingo.

Crazy people - or those teetering towards craziness - self-medicate with whatever they can get their hands on in an attempt to make themselves feel more 'normal.' This is true of people with all kinds of pyscho-social disorders: ADD, ADHD, A slew of different neuroses and psychoses. The tendency to self-medicate with illicit drugs is likely caused by the mental disorder, not the other way around...

[RobinFinderson]

Bingo.

Crazy people - or those teetering towards craziness - self-medicate with whatever they can get their hands on in an attempt to make themselves feel more 'normal.' This is true of people with all kinds of pyscho-social disorders: ADD, ADHD, A slew of different neuroses and psychoses. The tendency to self-medicate with illicit drugs is likely caused by the mental disorder, not the other way around...

Statman, I salute you!

[BigFatMeanie]

As perhaps the board's most active supporter of MJ legalization, I think it should go without saying that ingesting plants is never a risk-free behavior. Ultimately the only question should be this -- in a country that values freedom, are the risks associated with a behavior sufficiently localized to the individual so that the choice should remain a matter of personal choice, or are the externalities significant enough to make it something worth restricting?

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with RF on something but my inner libertarian screams out against the war on drugs as a stupid waste of time and money.

Interestingly, Robin, you're libertarian when it comes to drugs yet you're also perfectly willing to be authoritarian by supporting mandates and dictates and restrictions on freedom when it comes to things such as Title IX and other forms of repressive social engineering. You certainly seem to have taken Emerson's famous words to heart:

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. ‘Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.’ Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.

[scottie]

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with RF on something but my inner libertarian screams out against the war on drugs as a stupid waste of time and money.

Interestingly, Robin, you're libertarian when it comes to drugs yet you're also perfectly willing to be authoritarian by supporting mandates and dictates and restrictions on freedom when it comes to things such as Title IX and other forms of repressive social engineering. You certainly seem to have taken Emerson's famous words to heart:

Back from the dead!

[BigFatMeanie]

Back from the dead!

Turned my in final paper on Saturday. I now have two weeks of freedom (except next week I have to go to Mountain View for a final plenary session) and thus can spare some time to indulge in a guilty pleasure by sniping at RF.

[Viking]

It's not that difficult for me. If maintaining restrictions on certain behaviors will decrease costly negative consequences, then I can be persuaded to maintain those restrictions.



The study acknowledges and takes into account that and other possible confounders. Yet the conclusions confirm what has been found in other studies on the subjuect.

Do you support banning smoking? How about drinking? What about premarital sex? There's a big cost to medicare for unwed welfare moms.

how about lortab? What about anti-depressants that can actually induce suicidal thoughts?