The Utah Senate race

[SoonerCoug]

He's a pragmatist and a highly intelligent businessman who made himself from nothing.

I think people get too much credit for their own success and give too little credit to good fortune. It takes a lot of work to be successful, but I think the phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit for success is America's real entitlement problem.

It's pretty basic to me. You have to put in your hours, but even if you put in your hours, things still may not pan out.

I'd also like a definition of "nothing." Did he have to attend an inner city school and live in a ghetto?

[il Padrino Ute]

I think people get too much credit for their own success and give too little credit to good fortune. It takes a lot of work to be successful, but I think the phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit for success is America's real entitlement problem.

It's pretty basic to me. You have to put in your hours, but even if you put in your hours, things still may not pan out.

I can agree if you're talking about career politicians or those who have never worked in the private sector.

[byu71]

I think people get too much credit for their own success and give too little credit to good fortune. It takes a lot of work to be successful, but I think the phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit for success is America's real entitlement problem.

It's pretty basic to me. You have to put in your hours, but even if you put in your hours, things still may not pan out.

Seriously. Are you in the crowd that sees someone who is successful and comes up with, he/she was lucky? Most successful people I know will admit an element of good fortune, but in reality most successful people make their own good fortune.

I think too often we equate success with money. A school teacher who has a good life, spends a lot of time with family, emphasizes church activity is also successful. I will bet I couldn't get away with calling them just lucky though,

I will admit though, when someone beats me at something, I do feel better when I feel it was because they were lucky. I also feel better when I tell others I got beat because the other person was lucky.

[venkman]

however, how wise/fair is it to place so much power into so few hands? Of course those who are engaged and participating will be heard the most. What you fail to realize is that most of the time those who are motivated enough to participate at this level are generally fringe elements.

The only reason so few have power is that they're the ones choosing to participate. There's no reason it has to be "a few". We're talking like 2-3 hours every couple of years to attend your local precinct meeting. I've been to a few and potential delegates have always stated who they're supporting and then we vote. Yeah, it's boring, but so is church and we do that every week. It's called civic duty.

[oxcoug]

"People" might that doesn't mean

I think people get too much credit for their own success and give too little credit to good fortune. It takes a lot of work to be successful, but I think the phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit for success is America's real entitlement problem.

It's pretty basic to me. You have to put in your hours, but even if you put in your hours, things still may not pan out.

I'd also like a definition of "nothing." Did he have to attend an inner city school and live in a ghetto?

that Bridgewater does - Bridgewater is sharp and whether or not "people" get too much credit for their own success, some people deserve credit for their success because they didn't start on second or third base the way both Bennett and Lee have.

The fact that Bridgewater's wife is a sharp and (for a mother of four) kind of hot microbiology Phd who is a prof at BYU is another reflection that he's not your average rightwing loon and certainly not a chauvinist or a backwoodser.

[SoonerCoug]

Seriously. Are you in the crowd that sees someone who is successful and comes up with, he/she was lucky? Most successful people I know will admit an element of good fortune, but in reality most successful people make their own good fortune.

I think too often we equate success with money. A school teacher who has a good life, spends a lot of time with family, emphasizes church activity is also successful. I will bet I couldn't get away with calling them just lucky though,

I will admit though, when someone beats me at something, I do feel better when I feel it was because they were lucky. I also feel better when I tell others I got beat because the other person was lucky.

I don't think good fortune is all of it by any means--not even close. But it's a very important variable. I don't know how to break it down into percentages. Like I said, you have to put in your hours. But sometimes people start the race at such a severe disadvantage that it takes some serious luck to catch up. I'm not just talking about money here.

[SoonerCoug]

The fact that Bridgewater's wife is a sharp and (for a mother of four) kind of hot microbiology Phd who is a prof at BYU is another reflection that he's not your average rightwing loon and certainly not a chauvinist or a backwoodser.

I didn't know that was his wife. I like her. Most of her publications are in crap journals, although she has a few stellar publications.

I think she was the first female hired by the department, which is pretty remarkable considering the fact that it was in the late 90s.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is a bit of a tangent, but I understand Mike Lee is the favorite to win the nomination, which means he'll be in the U.S. Senate - at least until he does something dastardly, like vote for TARP. Utahns do seem to have a history of voting for the sons of famous men. Wallace Benett - Bob Bennett. Jon Huntsman - Huntsman Jr. Now Rex Lee - Mike Lee. (I forgot Scott Matheson Sr. - Jim Matheson.)

After today it appears that Bridgewater is the frontrunner. In fact, he almost got 60% today, which would have made him the R candidate (i.e., the next senator) without a primary.

[pellegrino]

The only reason so few have power is that they're the ones choosing to participate. We're talking like 2-3 hours every couple of years to attend your local precinct meeting. I've been to a few and potential delegates have always stated who they're supporting and then we vote. Yeah, it's boring, but so is church and we do that every week. It's called civic duty.

Be honest, those who participate because it's their "civic duty" are few and far in between. Most of those who participate as delegates either have political aspirations themselves or they have been evangelized by Ruzicky and those of her ilk. I've known enough delegates for the UT republican party to know what type of person is attracted to that sort of political engagement.

[venkman]

that Bridgewater does - Bridgewater is sharp and whether or not "people" get too much credit for their own success, some people deserve credit for their success because they didn't start on second or third base the way both Bennett and Lee have.

The fact that Bridgewater's wife is a sharp and (for a mother of four) kind of hot microbiology Phd who is a prof at BYU is another reflection that he's not your average rightwing loon and certainly not a chauvinist or a backwoodser.

Good point, I believe he grew up in a trailer park in West Jordan. A definite American success story. And he's a businessman, not another lawyer, thank God. I know he's sought and received support from Jim Gilchrist of the Minutemen. While I don't necessarily have a problem with that, my concern is that this paints him, whether he really is or not, as a wing nut and heaven forbid, hurts him in the general.

[byu71]

I don't think good fortune is all of it by any means--not even close. But it's a very important variable. I don't know how to break it down into percentages. Like I said, you have to put in your hours. But sometimes people start the race at such a severe disadvantage that it takes some serious luck to catch up. I'm not just talking about money here.

I too don't know how to quantify it. I agree, that is hard to do. Good fortune is part of it, but I just think effort is more of a part of it.

I don't know what I would attribute as luck in whatever small successes I have had in my life. However, I would never tell anyone that. They would think I was an arrogant jackass for saying it.

[oxcoug]

Anyway, can't really generalize success

I think people get too much credit for their own success and give too little credit to good fortune. It takes a lot of work to be successful, but I think the phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit for success is America's real entitlement problem.

It's pretty basic to me. You have to put in your hours, but even if you put in your hours, things still may not pan out.

I'd also like a definition of "nothing." Did he have to attend an inner city school and live in a ghetto?

Some people are purely lucky. Some people earned every bit of their own achievement. Most are a mix of the two. "Luck" or "fortune" are the advantages that come with time and place - what family you were born into, what country you were born in, whether your startup got noticed as an acquisition target even though you hadn't managed it as well as a similar one in a different place that didn't get noticed.

On the other hand, there are people who build their own stairway to success with sweat, focus and long hours.

Most super-successful people had good fortune AND worked hard. That's probably true of Bridgewater.

It's a sliding scale, right?

[venkman]

Be honest, those who participate because it's their "civic duty" are few and far in between. Most of those who participate as delegates either have political aspirations themselves or they have been evangelized by Ruzicky and those of her ilk. I've known enough delegates for the UT republican party to know what type of person is attracted to that sort of political engagement.

<speaking generally and not to you specifically>

If you didn't show up and vote in your local precinct you shouldn't bitch about the process. If you did show up and you still hate the process, by all means, bitch away.

I didn't show up this year, mostly because I was ambivalent on the candidates. So I not going to cry over Bennett losing or whine about not having a voice. I had my chance and elected not to participate.

[byu71]

Be honest, those who participate because it's their "civic duty" are few and far in between. Most of those who participate as delegates either have political aspirations themselves or they have been evangelized by Ruzicky and those of her ilk. I've known enough delegates for the UT republican party to know what type of person is attracted to that sort of political engagement.

Right or wrong, I think Bennett too got caught up in the political aspirations and power and why I am not all that bugged he is out. Didn't he pledge to only be in for a couple of terms or was that Hatch.

[il Padrino Ute]

Right or wrong, I think Bennett too got caught up in the political aspirations and power and why I am not all that bugged he is out. Didn't he pledge to only be in for a couple of terms or was that Hatch.

Both Hatch and Bennett promised that they wouldn't run for several terms. I'm not sure how many terms Hatch had promised to limit himself, but Bennett said specifically that he would only stay for two terms and then leave.