The Utah Senate race

[il Padrino Ute]

I understood that part. I was just wondering about your opinion of the days events.

I have a problem with change for change sake(isn't that what helped propel Obama). I can see being frustrated by a guy and wanting to see him out. I don't see doing it will little thought to who is going to replace him after he leaves. Similarly, I cannot understand the Dems putting Matheson through a primary. Matheson has been able to hold that spot by being a moderate. If they force him out in favor of someone who will toe the Dems party line better, they will definitely lose that seat. Matheson has earned the respect and votes of enough republicans in his district by voting a moderate line. Replace him on the ballot with someone who does not have the same political capital, and those republican cross over votes will go away.

Matheson will get re-elected. There are not enough far left voters to keep him from winning the primary and if I'm not mistaken, a Republican can vote in the Dem primary without having to register as a Democrat, so it will encourage someone like me to jump in and cast a vote for him.

[SoonerCoug]

I hope the tea party goes right on taking down incumbent Republicans.

[il Padrino Ute]

Once again you underestimate me. I pretty much know everything about all of your involvement at every level.

[il Padrino Ute]

I hope the tea party goes right on taking down incumbent Republicans.

You should be more concerned about them taking down moderate Democrats.

[venkman]

I agree with you about the more moderate people in the GOP here. They bitch and moan about what's going on, but they just sit on their hineys rather than get involved.

There are problems with our system, but the thing I like about it is that an incumbent just can't throw around a pile of money and convince a barely informed electorate to vote for them. Sure, Bennett lead in polls, but I'd wager that a big part of that is simply that many Republican voters aren't paying attention at this point and haven't heard of Tim Bridgewater or Mike Lee. That's what incumbents count on. Say what you want about the wackos, but they are engaged and participating. Moderates only have themselves to blame...they say they never got a say, but that's simply not true.

[byu71]

I hope the tea party goes right on taking down incumbent Republicans.

Agreed, also incumbant democrats.

[il Padrino Ute]

There are problems with our system, but the thing I like about it is that an incumbent just can't throw around a pile of money and convince a barely informed electorate to vote for them. Sure, Bennett lead in polls, but I'd wager that a big part of that is simply that many Republican voters aren't paying attention at this point and haven't heard of Tim Bridgewater or Mike Lee. That's what incumbents count on. Say what you want about the wackos, but they are engaged and participating. Moderates only have themselves to blame...they say they never got a say, but that's simply not true.

Agreed 100%.

[Jarid in Cedar]

There are problems with our system, but the thing I like about it is that an incumbent just can't throw around a pile of money and convince a barely informed electorate to vote for them. Sure, Bennett lead in polls, but I'd wager that a big part of that is simply that many Republican voters aren't paying attention at this point and haven't heard of Tim Bridgewater or Mike Lee. That's what incumbents count on. Say what you want about the wackos, but they are engaged and participating. Moderates only have themselves to blame...they say they never got a say, but that's simply not true.

You definitely cannot argue that Bennett did not understand how the system works. I think he did not recognize the threat in enough time to rally the support that he would need to survive the caucus. Or he had too much hubris and did not think that he could be threatened until it was too late.

[venkman]

My biggest problem is that Bennett was in an incredible position of power on the appropriations committee, specifically on the energy and water subcommittee. Considering that he is a vital appropriator for the DOI and DOE, he can provide a very strong check against this administration and their federal land policy in Utah. Remember Bill Clinton standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon announcing the Grand Staircase-Escalante Monument? No way he would have done that if Utah had a Senator in Bennett's current position.

Well, I hate that rationale...incumbents always try to scare us into thinking we can't do without them. But in this case, you may have a point.

As pissed as I was with Bennett a year or two ago, honestly I wasn't pushing to get him out. One, I'm just not that impressed with Lee or Bridgewater, and two, I don't know if this is the time for ideological purity. Job one is getting democrats out of power in congress and blocking Obama. I'm convinced our president is an extreme left wing radical and will flush this country down the toilet unless he can be stopped. Both Bennett and Hatch have been pretty solid in the age of Obama. But then again, they really haven't stopped anything. Bennett can fight the good fight this year, what really matters is that the GOP seriously increase their numbers come November.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Well, I hate that rationale...incumbents always try to scare us into thinking we can't do without them. But in this case, you may have a point.

As pissed as I was with Bennett a year or two ago, honestly I wasn't pushing to get him out. One, I'm just not that impressed with Lee or Bridgewater, and two, I don't know if this is the time for ideological purity. Job one is getting democrats out of power in congress and blocking Obama. I'm convinced our president is an extreme left wing radical and will flush this country down the toilet unless he can be stopped. Both Bennett and Hatch have been pretty solid in the age of Obama. But then again, they really haven't stopped anything. Bennett can fight the good fight this year, what really matters is that the GOP seriously increase their numbers come November.

This is the big thing for me. remove someone who could be useful to some degree and replace him with someone who is a unknown wildcard.

[oxcoug]

Kind of disagree

The Utah GOP just failed the idiot test.

You can look at this from a few angles - on one hand, it seems that some truly ridiculous criticisms were being made of of Bennett. He was wildly mischaracterized by some loons and those loons helped drive his defeat.

But there are some reasons that this can also be good for Utah IF Bridgewater wins.

Bridgewater isn't a nutty fundamentalist conservative. He's a pragmatist and a highly intelligent businessman who made himself from nothing. His education is in economics and he has a background that combines policy and practical private sector know-how. Washington needs more people like that.

It doesn't need more people like Mike Lee - mediocre minds who just got law degrees and waited for a chance to go into politics (I say this as the son and brother of multiple lawyers, but we have too many attorneys in US government).

Anyway, if Bridgewater wins Utah will have put a quality replacement in DC and the net gain (even after you subtract the loss that comes with Bennett's seniority) will be significant.

[YOhio]

This is the big thing for me. remove someone who could be useful to some degree and replace him with someone who is a unknown wildcard.

Don't worry about Bridgewater or Lee being a wildcard. The reality is that they'll be useless for the next 8-12 years.

[YOhio]

You can look at this from a few angles - on one hand, it seems that some truly ridiculous criticisms were being made of of Bennett. He was wildly mischaracterized by some loons and those loons helped drive his defeat.

But there are some reasons that this can also be good for Utah IF Bridgewater wins.

Bridgewater isn't a nutty fundamentalist conservative. He's a pragmatist and a highly intelligent businessman who made himself from nothing. His education is in economics and he has a background that combines policy and practical private sector know-how. Washington needs more people like that.

It doesn't need more people like Mike Lee - mediocre minds who just got law degrees and waited for a chance to go into politics (I say this as the son and brother of multiple lawyers, but we have too many attorneys in US government).

Anyway, if Bridgewater wins Utah will have put a quality replacement in DC and the net gain (even after you subtract the loss that comes with Bennett's seniority) will be significant.

I'm not convinced.

[pellegrino]

There are problems with our system, but the thing I like about it is that an incumbent just can't throw around a pile of money and convince a barely informed electorate to vote for them. Sure, Bennett lead in polls, but I'd wager that a big part of that is simply that many Republican voters aren't paying attention at this point and haven't heard of Tim Bridgewater or Mike Lee. That's what incumbents count on. Say what you want about the wackos, but they are engaged and participating. Moderates only have themselves to blame...they say they never got a say, but that's simply not true.

however, how wise/fair is it to place so much power into so few hands? Of course those who are engaged and participating will be heard the most. What you fail to realize is that most of the time those who are motivated enough to participate at this level are generally fringe elements.

[byu71]

You can look at this from a few angles - on one hand, it seems that some truly ridiculous criticisms were being made of of Bennett. He was wildly mischaracterized by some loons and those loons helped drive his defeat.

But there are some reasons that this can also be good for Utah IF Bridgewater wins.

Bridgewater isn't a nutty fundamentalist conservative. He's a pragmatist and a highly intelligent businessman who made himself from nothing. His education is in economics and he has a background that combines policy and practical private sector know-how. Washington needs more people like that.

It doesn't need more people like Mike Lee - mediocre minds who just got law degrees and waited for a chance to go into politics (I say this as the son and brother of multiple lawyers, but we have too many attorneys in US government).

Anyway, if Bridgewater wins Utah will have put a quality replacement in DC and the net gain (even after you subtract the loss that comes with Bennett's seniority) will be significant.

Do you consider yourself a republican and if so, a moderate one. I consider myself a moderate republican, but reading this thread I get the feeling I might get labeled a right winger.