The Utah Senate race

[LA Ute]

Hold it there turbo.

Whacko was in reference to people who think that taxes are high right now. Taxes are not high.

I don't think that people who disagree with my philosophy are whacko. I was talking about people who think taxes are high and who disregard the fact that taxes have actually been cut significantly in recent years.

You are too smart not to see that the overall composite tax rate cited in the USA Today article does not tell the entire story. Rates are very high in the upper brackets, and with the Bush tax cuts expiring at the end of this year they will go even higher. The health care reform law adds additional tax burdens, hidden and unhidden. To argue, as you do, that such a highly progressive scheme is best, is a reasonable position to take. (I disagree strongly with that position.) But to say that those who think current taxes are too high are whackos is not a reasonable position to take. Plenty of highly-trained economists think our system is too progressive and harms the economy and everyone in it. Go ahead and disagree with them, but calling those people crazy is a little bit silly.

[SeattleUte]

I'm for redistribution of wealth, etc. But if the economy is going to suffer for because of high taxes, then I prefer cutting taxes on the middle class. I like taxing rich people.

It's no coincidence that Cardiac is the most Republican person in our family. He earns the most. I know how this works. I think Cardiac ought to pay more taxes than I do, and I think the guy who did my laminate floor ought to pay less taxes than I do. I don't think that's unreasonable. I'm very happy with my floor, and he worked extremely hard. I work hard. Cardiac works hard. We all work hard. Cardiac should pay the most, and the guy who does laminate floors should pay the least. I think that's fair.

We know how this works. If you wish you had more money and make your living off of government largesse, you will likely be for redistribution of wealth.

[il Padrino Ute]

We know how this works. If you wish you had more money and make your living off of government largesse, you will likely be for redistribution of wealth.

It's not often that we agree about something, but we're in accordance here.

[SoonerCoug]

We know how this works. If you wish you had more money and make your living off of government largesse, you will likely be for redistribution of wealth.

If people vote out the leaders who choose to fund science, then I would simply go into private practice (and would end up making more money). I could easily go from 90K to 400K if I were to choose private practice, so it's not a matter of wishing that I had more money. I already have the option if I choose it.

I doubt that choosing a private practice career would change my view of the tax system.

I know lots of 50-year-old post-docs who work extremely hard for their 50K per year. I don't think the post-doc deserves higher taxes. His boss, a lead scientist who is making 500K, ought to pay higher taxes. The boss is probably better than the post-doc, but not 450K better.

Maybe I should put it this way. I have no problem taxing the heck out of Kobe Bryant, the anal rapist, and his 23-million-dollar salary. Society has somehow determined that Kobe is worth that much money, but I love the fact that we can elect leaders who impose a little sanity by taxing the rich.

Here is an example you ought to appreciate: The Church has a flat 10% tax. That's great for the rich and bad for the poor. If I made a million dollars a year, I would still want us to change to a progressive tithe system becuase I hate seeing poor people forced to give away money that they could be spending on something they really need.

[il Padrino Ute]

Maybe I should put it this way. I have no problem taxing the heck out of Kobe Bryant, the anal rapist, and his 23-million-dollar salary. Society has somehow determined that Kobe is worth that much money, but I love the fact that we can elect leaders who impose a little sanity by taxing the rich.

Here is an example you ought to appreciate: The Church has a flat 10% tax. That's great for the rich and bad for the poor. If I made a million dollars a year, I would still want us to change to a progressive tithe system becuase I hate seeing poor people forced to give away money that they could be spending on something they really need.

Fail.

Tithing is voluntary. Taxes are not.

If I choose to not pay tithing, I might forfeit any blessings that may have come my way. If I choose not to pay taxes, I very well could go to jail.

[SoonerCoug]

Fail.

Tithing is voluntary. Taxes are not.

If I choose to not pay tithing, I might forfeit any blessings that may have come my way. If I choose not to pay taxes, I very well could go to jail.

If a person chooses not to pay his tithing, he would miss his kids' weddings, his eternal salvation would be in jeopardy, and he could even lose his family. At a minimum, he would risk social condemnation. How does that make tithing just an option?

[il Padrino Ute]

If a person chooses not to pay his tithing, he would miss his kids' weddings, his eternal salvation would be in jeopardy, and he could even lose his family. At a minimum, he would risk social condemnation. How does that make tithing just an option?

As I said, tithing is voluntary. Taxes are not.

You're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

EDIT: I'll amend this to say that taxes are voluntary as well, because one can choose to not pay them. The consequences of choosing not to pay either are different in that one still has freedom if he chooses not to pay tithing.

[SoonerCoug]

As I said, tithing is voluntary. Taxes are not.

You're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

EDIT: I'll amend this to say that taxes are voluntary as well, because one can choose to not pay them. The consequences of choosing not to pay either are different in that one still has freedom if he chooses not to pay tithing.

Don't you get sent to spirit prison if you don't pay your tithing?

[il Padrino Ute]

Don't you get sent to spirit prison if you don't pay your tithing?

As I mentioned, you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

[LA Ute]

If people vote out the leaders who choose to fund science, then I would simply go into private practice (and would end up making more money). I could easily go from 90K to 400K if I were to choose private practice, so it's not a matter of wishing that I had more money. I already have the option if I choose it.

I doubt that choosing a private practice career would change my view of the tax system.

I know lots of 50-year-old post-docs who work extremely hard for their 50K per year. I don't think the post-doc deserves higher taxes. His boss, a lead scientist who is making 500K, ought to pay higher taxes. The boss is probably better than the post-doc, but not 450K better.

Maybe I should put it this way. I have no problem taxing the heck out of Kobe Bryant, the anal rapist, and his 23-million-dollar salary. Society has somehow determined that Kobe is worth that much money, but I love the fact that we can elect leaders who impose a little sanity by taxing the rich.

Here is an example you ought to appreciate: The Church has a flat 10% tax. That's great for the rich and bad for the poor. If I made a million dollars a year, I would still want us to change to a progressive tithe system becuase I hate seeing poor people forced to give away money that they could be spending on something they really need.

Sooner, I wish you a long career in research medicine. Please don't ever run for office. You might get elected.

[All-American]

If a person chooses not to pay his tithing, he would miss his kids' weddings, his eternal salvation would be in jeopardy, and he could even lose his family. At a minimum, he would risk social condemnation. How does that make tithing just an option?

You tell me. How many of the above have you experienced?

[byu71]

I have no problem taxing the heck out of Kobe Bryant, the anal rapist, and his 23-million-dollar salary. Society has somehow determined that Kobe is worth that much money, but I love the fact that we can elect leaders who impose a little sanity by taxing the rich.

I can go along with this.

Athletes, entertainers, entertainer-journalists all should pay 70% on anything they make over $1 million.

I am also for the progressive tax, but let's have a tax that has say 25% not paying taxes and 75% paying taxes. By taxes I mean income taxes.

[All-American]

If people vote out the leaders who choose to fund science, then I would simply go into private practice (and would end up making more money). I could easily go from 90K to 400K if I were to choose private practice, so it's not a matter of wishing that I had more money. I already have the option if I choose it.

I doubt that choosing a private practice career would change my view of the tax system.

I know lots of 50-year-old post-docs who work extremely hard for their 50K per year. I don't think the post-doc deserves higher taxes. His boss, a lead scientist who is making 500K, ought to pay higher taxes. The boss is probably better than the post-doc, but not 450K better.

Maybe I should put it this way. I have no problem taxing the heck out of Kobe Bryant, the anal rapist, and his 23-million-dollar salary. Society has somehow determined that Kobe is worth that much money, but I love the fact that we can elect leaders who impose a little sanity by taxing the rich.

Here is an example you ought to appreciate: The Church has a flat 10% tax. That's great for the rich and bad for the poor. If I made a million dollars a year, I would still want us to change to a progressive tithe system becuase I hate seeing poor people forced to give away money that they could be spending on something they really need.

You're making a perfect demonstration of why everybody ought to be paying at least some tax. When somebody else is footing the bill, all you can think of is ways to tax and spend more. There is no incentive to make government run efficiently, because it's not being run by your wallet. At the very least, I don't want to hear people who don't pay into the system complain that the wealthy people control it.

I have no problem with a progressive tax, incidentally, but when 50% of the nation pays NO income tax, that's just beyond the pale. Amazing that we as a country have gone from "no taxation without representation" to "representation without taxation."

[All-American]

I can go along with this.

Athletes, entertainers, entertainer-journalists all should pay 70% on anything they make over $1 million.

The day you implement this is the day that professional sports teams start paying their athletes via extended-term trust funds.

Which may not be that bad an idea, incidentally. There have been a few of them that have run into real financial problems. Don't forget, even though they're making more than a little money, they also have fewer years in which to earn it.

[SoonerCoug]

You tell me. How many of the above have you experienced?

A) I consider my salary over the last 12 years to be a scholarship. In fact, BYU told me not to pay tithing on my presidential scholarship stipend. I felt the same way about subsequent stipends while in training, but I went ahead and paid 5% tithing anyway. I never told anyone at Church that I wasn't paying 10% on my stipend, so I was not subject to any consequences at Church.

B) I have been condemned by several internet Mormons when I have admitted 5% tithing on my stipend.

C) I got divorced in large part because my ex-wife didn't like my religious views. She thought our eternal family was in jeopardy even though I was in the EQ presidency and attended faithfully. I lost my family once, but I was smart enough to marry a Mormon agnostic the second time.

D) We will all find out about my eternal salvation eventually (if there is an afterlife).