Thank you board!

[Coach McGuirk]

Update to US involvement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28484148/


Also looks like Israel is invading Gaza today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637/

[MindfulCoug]

Sorry, I read this article and found no substantive solutions to this problem. Are you saying everyone protest and that will solve it? Even some protesters turned violent, so I am not sure they are the example we are looking for.

No ,not at all. I was just portraying a different direction in which there is strong will to care about others as a human being regardless of their ethnicity,nationality or religion . And its obviously an opposite direction being taken by "chosen people".

[MindfulCoug]

Update to US involvement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28484148/


Also looks like Israel is invading Gaza today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637/

Yes .Ground incursion has started last night (my time).

[SeattleUte]

It is a plausible narrative, and there are shards of truth in it, but it is also filled with holes. Here is the johann Hari's story .

This fellow's resume says it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

72 percent of the Palestinian people may favor a two-state solution (I don't doubt this; it sounds very plausible; in the aggregate civilian populations comprise decent, reasonable people; hence democracy works). But Hamas doesn't feel that way. Hamas is in league with Hezbollah and sworn to stop at nothing to utterly destroy the state of Israel. Israel is supposed to let Hamas operate unchecked? The Palestinians have chosen vile, reprehensible leaders. Apparently they chose Hamas. They are suffering because of bad leaders. It's a tragic story but one that happens over and over again.

The clincher is that Hari admits that Hamas "did an immoral thing" in shooting rockets at Israeli cities and killing sixteen civilians. His best argument is the pragmatic one--that this will only continue even step up the cycle of violence. But when a fascist state (Hamas was elected; so was Hitler) starts firing rockets at a democracy's cities and killing their civilian citizens, far be it at least from me to presume to to draw the line at "measured response." I think with Hamas' rhetoric any act of war against Israeli cities certainly must be taken with a clear eyed view that the consequences could be all out of proportion with the original injury. How else do you deal with the likes of Hamas? Is measured response part of realistic moral calculus in warfare? Should Israel have done NOTHING?

I don't get these lefties. What are they doing supporting an Islamist state? Telingly, Hari, apparenlty a famous "secularist," admits in the article, "an Islamist party is antithetical to all my convictions." He should reflect. Why so? Isn't that the real problem here?

[SeattleUte]

corrected--two state solution not two party state

[MindfulCoug]

This fellow's resume says it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

72 percent of the Palestinian people may favor a two-state solution (I don't doubt this; it sounds very plausible; in the aggregate civilian populations comprise decent, reasonable people; hence democracy works). But Hamas doesn't feel that way. Hamas is in league with Hezbollah and sworn to stop at nothing to utterly destroy the state of Israel. Israel is supposed to let Hamas operate unchecked? The Palestinians have chosen vile, reprehensible leaders. Apparently they chose Hamas. They are suffering because of bad leaders. It's a tragic story but one that happens over and over again.

The clincher is that Hari admits that Hamas "did an immoral thing" in shooting rockets at Israeli cities and killing sixteen civilians. His best argument is the pragmatic one--that this will only continue even step up the cycle of violence. But when a fascist state (Hamas was elected; so was Hitler) starts firing rockets at a democracy's cities and killing their civilian citizens, far be it at least from me to presume to to draw the line at "measured response." I think with Hamas' rhetoric any act of war against Israeli cities certainly must be taken with a clear eyed view that the consequences could be all out of proportion with the original injury. How else do you deal with the likes of Hamas? Is measured response part of realistic moral calculus in warfare? Should Israel have done NOTHING?

I don't get these lefties. What are they doing supporting an Islamist state? Telingly, Hari, apparenlty a famous "secularist," admits in the article, "an Islamist party is antithetical to all my convictions." He should reflect. Why so? Isn't that the real problem here?

That is why i chose Hari's article as a source of unbiased information.

What is now happening in Gaza is about the people who have no place to run or hide .No food and supplies to stay and no arms to defend and you are talking about supporting Islamic state?
This article apparently shows you could be a humanist and a secularist/atheist at the same time.

[SoonerCoug]

What is now happening in Gaza is about the people who have no place to run or hide .

If the Palestinian people have no place to run or hide in the event of a war, then Hamas shouldn't be provoking a war. It's not in the interest of the Palestinian people. The Israelis abandoned their Gaza settlements, and Hamas proceeds to lob rockets into Israel. It's a damn stupid thing for Hamas to behave that way.

[SeattleUte]

If the Palestinian people have no place to run or hide in the event of a war, then Hamas shouldn't be provoking a war. It's not in the interest of the Palestinian people. The Israelis abandoned their Gaza settlements, and Hamas proceeds to lob rockets into Israel. It's a damn stupid thing for Hamas to behave that way.

Good post.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So as long as Israel is subjugated they have a right to exist? Isn't that the fate of all infidels?

A gross oversimplification.

[Indy Coug]

I just wanted to officially express my gratitude of masterfully ignoring the current catastrophe happening in Gaza strip .Despite the fact that almost all main media have been reporting the crisis for more than one week,there has been No single post dropped by any of the board members in order to not to spoil the fun atmosphere governing in here .

Please enjoy more of the massive food ,football ,fun environment generously provided by administrators and executive committee.

Sorry for the interruption ............

Why? It's just more of the same old, same old. Both sides are wrong. Innocent people die along with the guilty. Nothing will arise from this that will get the Israelis and Palestinians closer to peace.

In light of that, there really isn't anything to discuss.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well you were my number one suspect to crash the fun party .and thanks god you didnot disappoint me .

Jeff..people have been denied food, fuel ,water and medicine since june 2007 . Does it make any sense to you ? The most concern is they have been literally isolated from the world .They need to be able to live in that area.
They no longer could live under those circumstances . So the first thing they are fighting for is to achieve a peace agreement in which they put a stop on the israeli blockade.

Yes, Gaza is an absolute mess. Overpopulated, nowhere near enough water, damaged infrastructure. And the Israeli economic blockade (going back decades) has made the situation hopeless. I really wish the US media and public would wake up and be honest about what is going on.

But in spite of that, the worst possible response I can think of would be to send thousands of rockets into Israel. If the Hamas leaders are really as educated as you describe, they need to get their diplomas revoked. Dumbasses.

[RockyBalboa]

I just wanted to officially express my gratitude of masterfully ignoring the current catastrophe happening in Gaza strip.

Please enjoy more of the massive food ,football ,fun environment generously provided by administrators and executive committee.

You're welcome!!!

And thanks, I will.

[MindfulCoug]

If the Palestinian people have no place to run or hide in the event of a war, then Hamas shouldn't be provoking a war. It's not in the interest of the Palestinian people. The Israelis abandoned their Gaza settlements, and Hamas proceeds to lob rockets into Israel. It's a damn stupid thing for Hamas to behave that way.

This ideology is quite inconvinicible and a frail assumption to justify occupation and destroy resistance in any terms.

Hamas has been rejected and subjected to so many scuttling plans through economic pressure,persistent harassment and covert warfare since the day one after its election.

While Hamas has actually kept its word and refrained from suicide bombing in Israel ,Palestinian civilians have been killed or injured on a daily basis by Israelis for all these years.

Keeping in mind that suicide bombing has been used for several years to delay the final settlement negotiation ,now that suicide bombing has stopped ,there is a new excuse for avoiding the dialogue that is, that Hamas “refuses to recognize the state of Israel.

Ironically it is Israel that refuses to accept Palestinian statehood---a fact that is further underlined by its relentless efforts to topple the Hamas government.

The home made Qassam rockets which are fired into Israel are the unavoidable corollary of the 40 year long occupation and oppression .How is Hamas supposed to stop Israelis from their daily attacks then?

[MindfulCoug]

Yes, Gaza is an absolute mess. Overpopulated, nowhere near enough water, damaged infrastructure. And the Israeli economic blockade (going back decades) has made the situation hopeless. I really wish the US media and public would wake up and be honest about what is going on.

But in spite of that, the worst possible response I can think of would be to send thousands of rockets into Israel. If the Hamas leaders are really as educated as you describe, they need to get their diplomas revoked. Dumbasses.

Speaking of dumb, I suppose Israelis prefer to have a Palestinian karzai (i.e Mahmod Abbas) to take care of Gaza for them instead of smart ,educated delegations who are taking care of Palestinians interests.

[CardiacCoug]

Speaking of dumb, I suppose Israelis prefer to have a Palestinian karzai (i.e Mahmod Abbas) to take care of Gaza for them instead of smart ,educated delegations who are taking care of Palestinians interests.

Also speaking of dumb, why would anybody in America (President Bush, for example) go to war to achieve "Democracy in the Middle East."

Democracy in that region of the world results in Hamas or the current Iranian leadership. Give me a pro-Western despot over Democracy until the majority of people show some signs that they are something more than ignorant religious fundamentalists.