Nearly Half of All Children Will Use Food Stamps by Age 20

[Moliere]

That's odd. At what point is government assistance not enough?

When it's 8pm and the landlord is asking for a check now or he's going to evict the tenant who happens to be a single mom with little kids.

[wuapinmon]

Is there really a reason in which anyone in this country can not get enough education or training in order to earn a living?

Some people are just too lacking in intelligence to earn anything other than a poverty wage.

My experiences in actually living around poor people, and having lived and worked with minorities, tells me that there's far more at work in keeping the foodstamp rolls full than people being lazy.

White male privilege informs this thread.

[Moliere]

The tough thing is designing a system that accomplishes the goal of helping everyone who needs and keeping out the abusers of the system. There is too much overlap and gray-zone.

If you design requirements that will allow you to help everyone who is truly in need, there will be those who abuse the system. If you design a system that eliminates all fraud out of the system, you will have people who truly need the help slip through the cracks.

As a society, we have to decide what we value most out of the system.

FTR, I do not know which end of that diode is correct.

I hate to be a broken record but the church welfare system (local fast offerings) is by far the best system I've seen. It wouldn't work outside of the church but I've seen it help many, many people and some for an extended period of time. It has its shortcomings and I imagine it has its abuse, but the shortcomings and abuse are so far from what is seen in governmental programs.

There is something to be said about people paying directly to the person who extends the help instead of paying into some political machine that is corrupt and fails at implementing any sort of internal controls to watch over the system.

[il Padrino Ute]

The tough thing is designing a system that accomplishes the goal of helping everyone who needs and keeping out the abusers of the system. There is too much overlap and gray-zone.

If you design requirements that will allow you to help everyone who is truly in need, there will be those who abuse the system. If you design a system that eliminates all fraud out of the system, you will have people who truly need the help slip through the cracks.

As a society, we have to decide what we value most out of the system.

FTR, I do not know which end of that diode is correct.

I definitely agree that there is no perfect system, though it seems that there ought to be a way to find the abusers much easier. If those that abuse it put as much effort into getting an education and finding gainful employment - assuming the economy isn't in the tank as it is now - as they do abusing the system, the truly needy would not slip through any cracks.

For the record, I believe in being charitable and helping those in need, but taxing the hell out of me in order to allow too many to get away with not doing all they can is not the way to do it.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I definitely agree that there is no perfect system, though it seems that there ought to be a way to find the abusers much easier. If those that abuse it put as much effort into getting an education and finding gainful employment - assuming the economy isn't in the tank as it is now - as they do abusing the system, the truly needy would not slip through any cracks.

For the record, I believe in being charitable and helping those in need, but taxing the hell out of me in order to allow too many to get away with not doing all they can is not the way to do it.

I think that the penalty for abuse of the system should be a criminal offense.

[FN Phat]

I have to take random piss tests at work. If I fail them, I lose my job. Why can't a requirement for government assistance be a drug test?

[Moliere]

I definitely agree that there is no perfect system, though it seems that there ought to be a way to find the abusers much easier. If those that abuse it put as much effort into getting an education and finding gainful employment - assuming the economy isn't in the tank as it is now - as they do abusing the system, the truly needy would not slip through any cracks.

For the record, I believe in being charitable and helping those in need, but taxing the hell out of me in order to allow too many to get away with not doing all they can is not the way to do it.

I used to be one of those who said "why don't they just get a job?" I still think that line applies to some of those on welfare, but not to the majority. I've worked with welfare groups in my hometown and seen poverty in other places (southern Louisiana, east Texas) and it is a sad, sad thing. There is so much more that is needed in these areas than just jobs.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I have to take random piss tests at work. If I fail them, I lose my job. Why can't a requirement for government assistance be a drug test?

[il Padrino Ute]

Some people are just too lacking in intelligence to earn anything other than a poverty wage.

My experiences in actually living around poor people, and having lived and worked with minorities, tells me that there's far more at work in keeping the foodstamp rolls full than people being lazy.

White male privilege informs this thread.

I'll concede that I do not know many people that are not lacking the necessary intelligence to earn a decent wage, but those I do know in that unfortunate situation are lucky enough to have family or friends that are willing to help them.

I will also admit that I don't like the phrase "white male privilege" as it smacks of an excuse for victimhood and IMO, tells me that many who use that term look at non-white males or non-white people are incapable of taking care of themselves. I'm not accusing you of that wuap, but there are many in this country who do that.

[il Padrino Ute]

I used to be one of those who said "why don't they just get a job?" I still think that line applies to some of those on welfare, but not to the majority. I've worked with welfare groups in my hometown and seen poverty in other places (southern Louisiana, east Texas) and it is a sad, sad thing. There is so much more that is needed in these areas than just jobs.

Is it culture more than opportunity? I grew up in suburban Salt Lake City. The culture here is to get an education, get into a career and take care of your family.

The years I spent in school were not in Utah, but in an area where the culture of education and work was very similar. I really am ignorant of areas such as you mentioned, so it is difficult for me to wrap my head around it.

FWIW, the abusers of the system I've seen are right here in the Salt Lake Valley.

[il Padrino Ute]

I think that the penalty for abuse of the system should be a criminal offense.

Something needs to be done. If the answer is prison, I'm okay with that.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Is it culture more than opportunity? I grew up in suburban Salt Lake City. The culture here is to get an education, get into a career and take care of your family.

The years I spent in school were not in Utah, but in an area where the culture of education and work was very similar. I really am ignorant of areas such as you mentioned, so it is difficult for me to wrap my head around it.

FWIW, the abusers of the system I've seen are right here in the Salt Lake Valley.

Most of the abuse that I see is with the Medicaid system, People who work on a cash basis, drive a nicer car than I and are on medicaid. People who can't afford their medical bills, but can pay for cable, cell phones, IPods, and are on medicaid. Drives me crazy!

[JohnnyLingo]

White male privilege informs this thread.

That is one hell of a racist remark. Why not just refer to privilege, instead of bringing race and gender into it?

[wuapinmon]

I will also admit that I don't like the phrase "white male privilege" as it smacks of an excuse for victimhood and IMO, tells me that many who use that term look at non-white males or non-white people are incapable of taking care of themselves. I'm not accusing you of that wuap, but there are many in this country who do that.

On the contrary, I think the privilege of being a white male in this country can severely restrain our ability to empathize with the Other. The American Dream isn't a reality for everyone. For every up-by-the-bootstraps success story like Faith's Harvard student, I can point to 100 other people who had crappy parenting and turned into a crappy parent out of ignorance.

I can also show you people who have tried to rise above their economic class, but due to injury, death, illness, or racism against them, their success was arrested before it could develop.

[Moliere]

Is it culture more than opportunity? I grew up in suburban Salt Lake City. The culture here is to get an education, get into a career and take care of your family.

The years I spent in school were not in Utah, but in an area where the culture of education and work was very similar. I really am ignorant of areas such as you mentioned, so it is difficult for me to wrap my head around it.

FWIW, the abusers of the system I've seen are right here in the Salt Lake Valley.

It's both culture and opportunity.

One program my family has participated in brought in families to a local church and taught them life skills over the course of four months. You literally had to start with the concept of money before you could go on to budgeting or just simply paying a bill. We also taught they how to make a simple meal. Many of them had no idea how to cook or even what was nutritious to eat.

When you participate in something like this, your views change dramatically. You also see both the harm and the good that government assistance does to the truly poor.