A question for pelagius

[Pheidippides]

Well, I think there is a place for 25 reps but my understanding is that in peer reviewed journals a rep range of 6-12 consistently produces the most overall hypertrophy.

And this is precisely why I asked the question. Thanks - that's good to know. I am going to look at increasing weight and decreasing reps.

Like running, though, I'm not trying to kill myself at first. For the first time in my life, I'm trying to be smart about things.

[pelagius]

But it seems that before you can get cut on your abs, you need to remove almost all of the fat. How can cardio be counterproductive to that? Or is cardio counterproductive to building massive pecs and biceps (which I would not say that the guys in Nik's pic are massive)? Abs seem to be a fairly easy muscle group to build. The challenge is shedding the fat, not building the ab.

Yes, it more counter-productive to being massive but if your running is so intense that you end up in a catabolic state then you could lose muscle. I am not saying you shouldn't do cardio ... I don't think people can get to low body fat levels, unless they are some sort of genetic freak, without cardio. However, if your strength levels start to drop substantially as you diet and do intense cardio that's probably a signal that you should dial back the intensity on the cardio.

[TripletDaddy]

But ripped abs look so much more impressive when they are surrounded by a toned chest and bulging arms.

Don't I know it!

[Donuthole]

Don't I know it!

You've been swimming with MarkGrace, too, it seems.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I echo DDD's question when I ask why that is? If that is the case (and I have no reason to doubt that it is) then I'd rather keep with the running. Meaning that I will keep weight training but for the original reason I started it: to keep my upper body as fit as my lower body has gotten with running. Also, having a ripped torso isn't going to help me run 26.2 miles in January.

Pelagius, to answer your question (and because I'm too lazy to multi-quote) I am doing at least three sets of 25 on any given exercise, the idea being that the last reps should be just about all I can muster. And I am using dumbbells (both at home and at the gym) because my understanding is that free weights of any sort are much more beneficial in that the balancing component has a real effect.

That's similar to my strategy. I do three sets of 30 and I adjust the weight level so that I have to really push to do the last few. Then just for fun, I throw on 200 lbs at the end just to see how many reps I can do (bench press).

My goal is toning and maintenance, not bulk. I have been lifting consistently for almost four years and I love the way I feel. And I no longer feel shame when I look at myself in the bathroom mirror.

[Pheidippides]

That's similar to my strategy. I do three sets of 30 and I adjust the weight level so that I have to really push to do the last few. Then just for fun, I throw on 200 lbs at the end just to see how many reps I can do (bench press).

My goal is toning and maintenance, not bulk. I have been lifting consistently for almost four years and I love the way I feel. And I no longer feel shame when I look at myself in the bathroom mirror.

This is my goal too. I don't care so much about bulk (although I'm not opposed to it, as long as it is lean muscle mass) as tone.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is my goal too. I don't care so much about bulk (although I'm not opposed to it, as long as it is lean muscle mass) as tone.

Bulk is nice, but it isn't everything.

A couple of years ago I was on a campout with some high school football players. They were pretty bulked and had the nice rippling abs (darn that teenage metabolism). We started arm-wrestling and I could beat them all. Quite easily in fact. They were shocked.

[pelagius]

Pelagius, to answer your question (and because I'm too lazy to multi-quote) I am doing at least three sets of 25 on any given exercise, the idea being that the last reps should be just about all I can muster. And I am using dumbbells (both at home and at the gym) because my understanding is that free weights of any sort are much more beneficial in that the balancing component has a real effect.

I love dumbbells ... but I don't use them exclusively ... I am a big believer in lift rotation ... This is not an issue you probably have to worry about for the first 6-12 months. In essence I rotate in different types of lifts every few weeks as a kind of (for lack of a better word) periodization. So right now my max effort upper body push lift is weighted dips but in a few weeks I will rotate to something else: maybe dumbbell floor press? Hopefully my body responds to the change and then I change my lift selection again before I plateau completely on the current lift.

[beelzebabette]

I echo DDD's question when I ask why that is? If that is the case (and I have no reason to doubt that it is) then I'd rather keep with the running. Meaning that I will keep weight training but for the original reason I started it: to keep my upper body as fit as my lower body has gotten with running. Also, having a ripped torso isn't going to help me run 26.2 miles in January.

Not speaking of you specifically, but long-distance runners have their own level of hot. (Or, is that Hott, UteStar? I can never keep track of where we're at. HAWTT?) The muscle definition in the abs, upper arms, & pecs is more subtle, but I think it makes the look all the better.

I'm, of course, not referring to the gangly, high-school x-country runner look.

[TripletDaddy]

A couple of years ago I was on a campout with some high school football players. They were pretty bulked and had the nice rippling abs...

All of a sudden, scouting doesn't sound so bad....

[Pheidippides]

I'm, of course, not referring to the gangly, high-school x-country runner look.

This is precisely the look I'm trying to avoid. And the one I used to have in HS (ask LiveCoug).

[beelzebabette]

This is precisely the look I'm trying to avoid. And the one I used to have in HS (ask LiveCoug).

This is completely a haphazard guess, but I don't think you need to worry about it. There's a difference between a teenage body trimming down even more for minimal weight to carry, and a grown man that tones muscles carrying around the weight he loses in the process.

[TripletDaddy]

This is precisely the look I'm trying to avoid. And the one I used to have in HS (ask LiveCoug).

From the 2008 Olympics.

World class runners, btw.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I personally wouldn't ever start a weight-training program where I'm only doing 6-12 reps of anything. Then again, I already have all the bulk I need. I've found that doing 12-15 reps in supersets and circuit training is the most effective. 25 reps is a lot and I can't see someone really building up any kind of bulk doing that. You'll get toned, but you need to already have the underlying muscle. I found in the past that 12-15 reps does a pretty good job for me. I just wish I'd get back in the groove.

[Eddie]

I've taken a similar approach to what you describe. With the running and biking, I'm not worried about my legs. So I'm not doing any weights with them right now.

I think with weights you have to be careful not to hurt anything when you are getting started and your body isn't ready for it. From that perspective you are probably good to have started with more reps and lower weights.

Now, I'm not a weights expert by any means. The stuff I know is all stuff I've heard from people who I know that know a lot more than me.

One thing I've heard is that you never want to do so much weight that you are doing fewer than about 8 reps, as that significantly increases the chances of damage to ligaments and tendons.

My method is that I start with a weight that I can do 12-15 reps with, and then leave it at that same weight. I find that with the first set I can do the 12-15, with the second I'm doing 10-12, and with the third set I'm doing 8-10.

I'm also impatient. I hate waiting between sets. So I'll do more of a circuit. For instance, I'll do the bench and then go directly to the row. Or I'll do an assisted pull-up and then dips. You get the idea - working different muscles back to back instead of resting between each set for each lift. When the weight room is empty I'll do as many as 6-7 different lifts in a row, rest while I get a drink, and then go on to the second set, etc. So far it's worked OK for me.