Marathon Training Thread

[Pheidippides]

I have a neighbor who ran distance in college and is a pretty good runner. I remember him remarking once how impressed he is with folks who finish a marathon in 5+ hours - saying he can't even begin to imagine running for that length of time.

Congrats to all of the Disney runners. Sounds like a good time was had by all.

Your friend is right as far as I'm concerned. I had a five hour marathon once and it was the toughest mentally over the longest stretch. The last two I've done have been my most successful and my fastest, and they were tough for those last two miles, but only the last two. And you can do anything for 10 or 15 minutes. But six hours plus, often carrying extra weight, years or injuries? I learned long ago that any marathon finish is to be respected, and everything I saw yesterday reinforced that.

[MarkGrace]

Thinking I'm going to try for the San Juan Island marathon. Downside is it doesn't seem extremely well run (kind of a local deal) and not entirely flat, but on the flip side it's cheap and a good time of year for my schedule (middle of June). And of course it would be nice to go stay out there a couple nights in the summer.

[Joe Public]

Odin's beard, my legs hurt! Finished the marathon leg in 3:43:48. Pacer dragged me those last two miles - they were every bit as tough as St. George's last two, if not worse.

Exceptionally proud of this race. Came in in a cumulative 5:35ish for the Goofy if my math is right. It may not be because I am not exactly thinking straight right now

In retrospect, how do you grade the Pfitz running plan?

[Pheidippides]

In retrospect, how do you grade the Pfitz running plan?

A+. My race report is coming. Typed most of it on the plane.

[Pheidippides]

(Part 1) And now for my own usual race recap. I hope these don't bore everybody but I find them fun to type up as a way to evaluate my own race a day or so later.

As anybody that participated in the holiday running challenge (thanks Moliere!) knows, I have put in some insane miles for this. What I did was tweak the Pfitzinger 12/70 plan to have some 13-20 back to back runs. I would like to start by saying that I am a huge, huge, HUGE fan of the increased mileage approach. The gains are incredible.

I didn't know what to expect from this race. On one hand, my training has been phenomenal. On the other hand, it was going to be hot. And I've gained 10-15 pounds (unlike ER, I'm too afraid to weigh - I came into Orlando at about 190ish). If there is ever a course and place to take the race easy, it's Disney - but I am not capable of taking it easy. I'm all business when the gun sounds, so I have no pictures with characters.

There's not a lot to say about the 5k. Ran it with my mom and my daughter, and took about 40 minutes to do it. I don't know that I can claim that it had any effect on me at all. Was actually a nice warmup. Did randomly see ER and family in the middle of 50,000 people, so that's crazy. Costumes were pretty good for the 5k, actually (including a couple in a nice set of LED suits and a guy dressed up as Dopey in honor of doing the Dopey Challenge).

Half marathon day was different. I mistimed the buses and what time to tell my parents to be at my hotel, the end result being that I had to book it to the start. I got myself into the half marathon corral (I was in corral A) with about 5 minutes to spare. Last year I ran the half with my wife from like Corral ZZ or something like that, and it was pure torture weaving in and out of people all the time. Corral A was much, much better. I agree with ER that this is not a good PR course, but it did thin out after a couple of miles and I had zero issues. Ran a lot on the grass at the shoulder whenever I could to save the legs, which is something I learned last year on accident. Honestly I don't remember a lot of the half - I cruised until about mile 11.5, when I caught a glimpse of the 1:50 pace group. Under the ridiculous guise of doing a fast speed run to supersaturate with carbs later (a method that worked well for me at St. George), I hit the burners. Ran the last mile or so at 7:00, well faster than I had any business running it, but caught the pace group just at the end. Finished in 1:49:07 with a pretty fresh set of legs, then met up with ER (who'd beat me by a full 10 minutes) and just after that PAC, Parrothead, etc. Oh, and I immediately iced down my quads after the race - very happy I did that.

Now for the marathon and the real mile-by-mile write up. I managed to get up on time and put on my lightest and skimpiest clothes with plenty of chamois cream in sensitive areas. I'd seen the weather forecast and it wasn't pretty. I honestly didn't know what to expect - I'd confided in ER the day before that I was considering trying for a PR, but I decided to scrap that idea. My only real goal was to do the Goofy in under 6:00, which meant that a 4:10:52 was sufficient (that would match my first ever marathon time within a few seconds). I decided that the 3:45 pace group was the place to start, especially on a day that starts at 65 degrees and 100% humidity (if you believe weather.com).

As those of you who have run at WDW know, the walk to the corral is not insignificant. On the way there a young brash kid doing his first marathon - guy with a great beard and a mohawk - decided I was a kindred spirit (maybe it was my own fauxhawk?) and started to talk to me. Clearly he was nervous, but trying to hide it with all sorts of bravado about all these Tough Mudders he'd done, and how he'd qualified for the national championship Tough Mudder race (is there such a thing) so he was going to try to qualify for Boston. Internally I laughed, but suggested his best bet was to try to hang with a pace group, take it slow at the first, stay hydrated - pretty much the same advice I was giving myself.

Had to pee like nine billion times before the race (and during, as you'll see). Lost one of my gels during a pee stop too - dammit, I didn't take a spare. I'll grab one on the course. Warmed up with a few strides just to make sure the legs were feeling good (they were decent, no worse than during training) and did some stretching and meditating. Then I hopped into my corral (A again) and found the group. Pacer was a funny guy (although not the best technical pacer, as you'll see from the splits), and there were a few other Goofy participants hanging around. Jeff Galloway/Bart Yasso/Frank Shorter etc. say their little bits, and then we are off.

Mile 1: This is a lot more crowded than yesterday. After the race I confirmed this with other Corral A folks - although I think a lot of it was that I was running with a pace group. Slowish running so we know we are going to be chasing time. Have to stop to pee halfway through the race and then catch up to the group. There is a water stop right here at the first and I am determined to drink every stop, so I grab a cup. Right at the start the speakers are blaring Gangnam Style, and halfway through the mile there's a high school band doing the same. Psy has got to be rolling in it now. Pace: 9:10.

Mile 2: Unlike previous years, we're not making an initial loop that passes through Epcot. Instead, it's straight off to the Magic Kingdom. Still super crowded. We have picked up the pace a little bit. The fireworks signaling the start of the other corrals sound in the distance, and the pacer jokes that he keeps looking up into the sky to see which tribute is dead now. Ha! Pace: 8:28.

Mile 3: Need to pee again - this is annoying. Not that I care a ton, but there are plenty of porta-johns open in Corral A, so I just grab one and catch up to the group. I'm starting to worry about these accelerations - hopefully they won't spell doom for me later. The road is much wider here so it's no longer crowded, and I don't think it got really bad after that. Pace: 8:39.

Mile 4: The thing about Corral A is that we aren't newbie runners. We're all experienced, we're all shooting for some sort of time, we're not people in it just to finished. And we all know damn well how hot it is and it's going to be. So as the road narrows and we go through the second aid station, it's less like a marathon and more like UFC: Endurance Edition. Everybody is running through, nobody is slowing when they grab cups or drink, and elbows are flying while we all jockey for position. Never seen anything like it. I didn't see anything like it later in the race either, although water stops were pretty aggressive all day. Saw not a few volunteers get soaked, which was pretty funny (seriously, thanks volunteers). Chatted with a woman - probably mid 40s - who had an Ironman finisher shirt on. She says she does Ironmans to train for marathons because they rip her body up less. I had never thought of that. Pace: 8:16.

Mile 5: This is the part of the race that runs through the parking lot and transit center on the way to the Magic Kingdom, and where the characters start appearing. Jack and Sally from The Nightmare Before Christmas almost tempted me to get pictures, but not enough. I have to pee again just past the transit center (always a cool spot because that's where the spectators come out to play), so I grab another porta-john and then catch up to my pace group at an underpass by the Contemporary Resort. Pace: 8:19.

Mile 6: In Magic Kingdom! The pacer told us he was going to slow it in the parks, both to enjoy the experience and to avoid the adrenaline. The crowd is massive - five or six people deep - and as we mentioned before it was awesome to run it in the dark. Castle still has all the awesome Christmas lights on. I have to pee yet again, so I duck in one of the park bathrooms (so does my pacer - he gives the balloons to the alternate) and then turn on the jets to hopefully catch the group. I was going to get a picture at the castle but a bunch of us apparently jumped the sacred cones and the photographer got mad, so screw that - I have the one from yesterday anyway. Pace: 9:11.

Mile 7: Out of the Magic Kingdom now and to an aid station in the back stage area. Crap, I forgot to take a gel and salt tab at Mile 5, so I do so here. This is where I start dumping water down my back too. I catch the pace group right after the aid station, and we're down the back roads to the Grand Floridian. Like ER said, the music along the course - most of which isn't live - was pretty cool. DJ along here was loud. Pace: 8:10.

Mile 8: Couple of unmarked speed bumps around the Grand Floridian that almost trip us up. It's about here that I notice that the Sharpie signs that were here for the past two years are not here anymore. That's too bad - I found those pretty funny, if truth be told, and they kept me entertained. I have to pee yet again at the end of this mile - seriously, WTF? It's not like my hydration plan was different than any other time - but it's thankfully almost the last time for the race. Catch the pace group in short order, but this accelerating and dropping back is going to be taking a toll on me. Pace: 8:27.

Mile 9: "Caution. Steep Hill Ahead." That's what the sign says. This is a new part of the race this year - we're going to run through the WDW Speedway on the track. I've actually been nervous about this because experience shows me that banked roads are not my friend. And I have this thing in my calf now that may or may not be bad. Also, my quads feel like I'm at mile 20 instead of mile 9. Thankfully, the "steep hill" turns out to be a steep underpass. Hah. This is cake after St. George. I laugh and pass like 30 people on the downhill slope and power up the uphill with no problems. Turns out the speedway is flat - but it goes on FOR-FREAKING-EVER. The whole mile and more, actually. Kinda boring, to tell you the truth, although some of the cars parked there were nice (they've had classic cars at the race in past years). I didn't know they had a working scale version of Finn McMissile though. Pace: 8:17.

Mile 10: Finally, the speedway is over. I pound two more salt tabs (they were stuck together in my pouch), grab a banana at the race station, and continue drinking every stop. This is probably why I've been peeing so much, but I'll make the trade-off to deal with heat and humidity. A couple of fellow pace groupers comment that the pacer has really picked it up, and he sure has. I stop briefly at a med tent and get some biofreeze, anticipating some quad issues. Pace: 8:03.

Mile 11: We're still moving at a pace that isn't necessarily comfortable for us. I start talking with the guy next to me - he's got an Ironman finisher shirt on too, and I want to pick his brain. Turns out to be a college kid of about 24, but way more mature. Awesome guy - I would totally have hired him for anything based on personality alone. We talk for most of the next four miles or so - I got some awesome information from him. So glad I've ditched headphones for these races. Pace: 8:08.

Mile 12: Honestly this was a bit of a blur, engrossed in conversation as I was. Before I know it we've passed the water treatment plant and are in Animal Kingdom. Legs are feeling a bit wobbly now and I'm starting to really wonder if I can hang with this group the entire time. But the pace has slowed. Pace: 8:30.

Mile 13: This is a cruel trick, Disney. Animal Kingdom is supposed to be like mile 18, and here I am only half way done. As much, by the way, as I've loved my Mizuno shoes, they are a bit slippery on the watered-down park surfaces. Last pee stop in Animal Kingdom, but I lose the pace group. I frantically try to catch the pace group. Pace: 8:44.

[Pheidippides]

(Part 2) Mile 14: Still chasing the pace group. Time to pound another gel. Sun is up enough that it's time to think about pulling out the sunglasses. Amazingly, I have a piece of my top that is almost dry enough to get them clean. I'm taking three cups of water here - drinking one and a half, pour over one and half. Caught the pace group about 3/4 of the way through the mile. Pace: 7:53.

Mile 15: I had originally thought I'd have some energy to go at mile 10. That didn't happen. Now, at mile 15, I'm realizing that I'm an idiot if I make any sort of move until at least mile 20. I don't have the legs for it, which is obvious up a couple of mile overpasses that have my HR spiking above my lactate threshold (or at least what it was last time I got it tested). The pacer is talking now, starting to be engaged. Turns out he's also signed up for the same Ironman I am, although he will no doubt be much faster. These are the boring miles. Pace: 8:22.

Mile 16: We've got opposing traffic coming back from the new segment in the Wide World of Sports area. But there's not many. The 3:05 pace group passes the other way at some point around here, and we chuckle when we see there's only about four people in the group (we're still 20 or 30 strong). Today is not a PR or BQ day - way too hot. I catch one more aid tent and redo the biofreeze, throwing in some Tylenol for good measure. Shockingly, my legs (other than the quads) don't feel any worse than they did during St. George at this point. That's a hopeful sign. Pace: 8:26.

Mile 17. On the way into WWOS. We're sweeping up a few people who went out too fast and are trying to hang on. This is hot and ugly. Time for my last salt tab, which I take without water even though the casing is about split from everything I've dumped over my head. The pace is a touch faster and I am feeling it, struggling to stay with the group. Pace: 8:13.

Mile 18: During the London Olympics, one of the announcers for the men's marathons said that marathons are about good patches and bad patches, and the important thing is to fight through the bad patches. That really stuck with me and has become one of my three mantras (one I will share later, and the third - "today is race day" - I didn't use). This is a bad patch, and I keep telling myself to fight through it. The knowledge that there will be a good patch on the other side of this is all I need. We are in WWOS now. Toss down another gel picked up on the way. Pace: 8:22.

Mile 19: Disney, you put on great races, you really do. They are everything that PAC and others have said they are, but go back to the old course. This WWOS nonsense, with the 18 billion sharp corners and the winding, has got to go. Okay, the track was a nice rest on the feet since I haven't run much on grass today, but that's like what? 300 meters? Pace: 8:28.

Mile 20: Oh, and that 20 mile spectacular surprise thing? Real letdown. Giant hot air Mickey balloon, run through the Braves' spring training stadium, get my name announced, see myself on a big screen, and run on the warning track? In other words, a poor man's version of what they've been doing at the Disneyland half for years, only with a hot air balloon? Lame. On a brighter note, the runDisney facebook page posted a picture of my pace group right here, complete with a good shot of yours truly, and I don't look too bad. Also, there's a woman here with a sign that says "Your Great!" that, per the same facebook page, Donuthole made her fix. Donald, Mickey and Goofy are all at the exact Mile 20 spot, but if I stop to get a picture now I'm not starting up again. Pace: 8:29.

Mile 21: We're now the speedy side of opposing traffic. Our pacer tries to encourage us by telling us we should be thankful we aren't all the poor slobs going the other way with four or five miles left to get where we are. Lol. I wonder how all the poor slobs that heard it felt. We're getting cheers of "3:45 group! Go!" all over the place, mostly because these are 4:00-4:30 marathoners (on a good day) and a 3:45 is a mystical time. I remember feeling like that once too. Pace: 8:23.

Mile 22: At this part on the course is a "hill" - an on ramp around a corner, to tell you the truth, nothing more than that. But it's super hot out and the pacer tells us that he loses at least half the group here every year. Turns out that's a conservative estimate - I wager we lose about 2/3rds. I am really feeling it at this point, and the data shows that my HR spiked again, which is (frankly) embarrassing. But I intentionally don't check any of that during the race. Instead I simply chant "Veyo" to myself - a word that has become my most powerful mantra, after St. George. I'm internally laughing at my bravado earlier in the race - at this point I'm just praying I can stay with the pace group. Pace: 8:26.

Mile 23: One more on ramp, and then to the threshold of Hollywood Studios. My Garmin is telling me that I'm actually a full third of a mile longer than the mile markers (I finish with 26.56 miles, my longest marathon ever). Later on several people criticize the course for being far too long; I have a friend who shows 27 miles. Part of that is due to all the curves in WWOS, I'm sure, but that's of little importance when trying to finish. This, together with the heat (it's about 70 degrees and 96 percent humidity), is mentally killing me. No more good patch/bad patch - it's all a bad patch now. Pace: 8:36.

Mile 24: Hollywood Studios now. Who in the holy name of Pre thinks mini chocolate bars are a good idea for sugar/candy at this point in the race? That's what they are handing out. No thank you - ugh. Sign of the day says "Humpty Dumpty Also Had Wall Problems." It seemed funnier at the time, probably because I was delirious. I desperately need to walk - my quads are a wreck - not as bad as St. George, actually, but I don't realize that at the time. The pacer starts really digging into his bag of tricks to motivate, reminding us that it's our brain quitting first, not our legs. I try to remember all the hard weeks I put in, the tough training. It gets me to the boardwalk. Pace: 8:23.

Mile 25: I have no earthly clue how I ran this mile. The wall is here. No burst for me today. There's nothing wrong with my gait, I"m not moving any more awkwardly than usual. Mentally I pretend to throw a rope around my pacer and hold on to the other end to drag me through. It's a continual battle in my head between the me who wants so desperately to walk - knowing I am going to beat whatever time goals I had - and the me who wants to finish strong. Somehow I zombify myself to the gates of Epcot. Pace: 8:21.

Mile 26: This is now officially a death march. Every step is a mental mile. All the little hills and bumps in Epcot - the one in the United Kingdom specifically - murder me and my. The pacer is screaming now, not just at our group (which numbers only about six or seven; we've dropped most, although a couple of people had the energy to move on ahead) but at everybody. Several walkers here - including the mohawked guy that was so convinced he was going to qualify for Boston. The marathon is cruel, my friend, and if you do not respect it, it will chew you up and spit you out. You can do anything for three minutes, screams the pacer at the end of the mile. Maybe. I'm running level with him now. I'm not going to have any crazy burst to finish like I often do - but that tells me that I have given it everything. Pace: 8:34.

Mile 26.2: There's my gospel choir, right at mile 26! That choir signals the end. I decide that I'm going to try to look good for the finish, so I muster a smile, run down the home stretch, and pump my fist as I cross. I'm so proud of myself for not stopping when I wanted to - I don't think I would have been able to do it without St. George as an experience. Pace: 8:10.

Official Final Time: 3:43:48

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/261627762 (full marathon)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/261327016 (half marathon)


I finished about 10-15 seconds ahead of my pacer, so I turn around to thank him for dragging me those last two miles. Then it's off to me medals and to collect my bag from the bag check (another benefit of Corral A and finishing fast - I'm the only guy who needs a bag, so that part goes very smoothly. I pull out my phone to call my mom/daughter - where were they? - to find out that my daughter has been puking all morning so they're back at the hotel. Turns out to be food poisoning so not a big deal, but in the meantime I hurry back to the hotel to let my mom see my dad finish three hours later (my daughter recovers so we all get to see it).

While this time isn't a PR, I'm very proud of it. The increased crazy mileage paid off handsomely. I was about 10 minutes off of my PR for both the half and the full, which is kind of crazy. I had a number of things go wrong - too fat, too hot, course too long, half the day before - and still pulled out a 3:43. I think I'm legitimately in 3:25-3:20 shape on a good day (which this was not). If I can now finally drop down to 165 or so and maybe even ramp up to the 18/85 schedule for Houston next January....

[ERCougar]

Great report, niku. I don't know how you people remember all of these details. You mention certain miles being a blur--that's pretty much my whole race. And great finish under pretty rough conditions.

I'm going to try the salt tablet thing. I got a little sick on this one, which is a new thing for me at the half distance. It seems like any time I sweat a lot, I get sick. Outside of that, what else do you do? The problem with running in winter in Utah (I'm going to try Ogden again in May) is that you can't really road test any hydration issues because it never gets hot enough to sweat much.

Oh, and I only weighed myself after I got home. I didn't dare weigh before the race, which was smart because it would have totally blown my confidence.

[Pheidippides]

Oh, and I only weighed myself after I got home. I didn't dare weigh before the race, which was smart because it would have totally blown my confidence.

Same here. 197.8 this morning. Ugh. I will drop 30 pounds by the Ironman, and I'll keep it off. That alone will probably have me sniffing fast times.

As far as hydration goes, I think I'm just lucky to train in Houston in the summer (it sounds so odd to say that). While the conditions weren't ideal by any stretch, they were far better than what I was running in during August/September/October of last year. I do swear by the salt tabs though.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Excellent like report, nik, and like ER, I don't know how you can remember all the details. I certainly remember highlights of my Half, but much of it was just "pound, pound, pound..." I also don't know how you're able to do so much starting/stopping with the multiple pee breaks. Of course, I was only doing a half, but I managed not to stop at all. On the other hand, I took a leak right before the start at the edge of the woods next to Corral B where we started.

I managed my beverage and food intake very well, I thought. I hydrated pretty heavily the day before and drank two glasses of water 90 minutes before the start. I also had a banana and Power Bar as soon as I woke up. On the course, I drank two cups of water and one of PowerAde and popped a Gu at the start and one more at Mile 7. That was it, and sufficient for my leisurely 9:50 pace.

I liked many of the signs, and that fact that many thousands of people were lining the route to cheer everyone on. I very strongly recommend Disney Run events to those considering a Half or Full. Great for the whole family.

[lambdacoug]

nikuman, Thanks for your write-ups. They are very motivational.

[Pheidippides]

nikuman, Thanks for your write-ups. They are very motivational.

You'll have your own here soon. I'm sure of it, the way you are going. I got the idea from bluegoose, who motivated me when I was starting out four years ago.

[Pheidippides]

In other news I signed up for my next marathon. It's in six weeks. Short turn around and I probably won't run it at 100 percent, but my legs feel great today. I have my reasons for picking this one.

[ERCougar]

Same here. 197.8 this morning. Ugh. I will drop 30 pounds by the Ironman, and I'll keep it off. That alone will probably have me sniffing fast times.

As far as hydration goes, I think I'm just lucky to train in Houston in the summer (it sounds so odd to say that). While the conditions weren't ideal by any stretch, they were far better than what I was running in during August/September/October of last year. I do swear by the salt tabs though.

C'mon, that's all you got for me? I get a yard by yard breakdown of milepoint 16.35, but all I get here is salt tabs?

[Pheidippides]

C'mon, that's all you got for me? I get a yard by yard breakdown of milepoint 16.35, but all I get here is salt tabs?

Lol, no, I was on my phone. I have more to say but not the energy to type it.

[Moliere]

In other news I signed up for my next marathon. It's in six weeks. Short turn around and I probably won't run it at 100 percent, but my legs feel great today. I have my reasons for picking this one.

Hmmm...dare I ask which one?

My training has taken a bad turn this week. I tried to do 17 miles on Saturday but only got 16.2 before I had to stop. I didn't eat well before starting and didn't take any gels. Stupid, I know. But the worst part is that my right achilles has been crazy sore since Saturday. I could barely walk yesterday and today it still hurts but not as much. Thankfully it's a rest week and I'm just going to skip everything and try to run 12 miles on Saturday if it feels better. I've been pushing myself a lot with 4 runs/week and the long miles but maybe I pushed it too far. Anyway, I hope I heal quickly and can get in two more long runs before my marathon in six weeks.