Marathon Training Thread

[Eddie]

What do you runners think of the run-walk training method, described in this [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/health/02well.html?_r=1&ref=health"]NY Times article[/URL? I know at least a couple of you have steered me in the direction of Hal Higdon, and I intend to adopt his plan as I get ready to do the Disney Half, but the run-walk thing has some appeal for training purposes.

I can run 3 miles at 9/mile, or 6-7 miles at around 9:30/mile, but I don't feel like I'm improving and wonder if a run/walk training regimen might help. And honestly, I'd love an occasional mid-run break.

It's been more than a year since I read Hal Higdon's book, but I seem to recall him being fairly supportive of taking walk breaks and referencing Galloway in his book. In fact, I think he even talks about either him or someone he knows running a 2:30 marathon (or there abouts) while walking through all the aid stations. In particular, Higdon is a big proponent of new runners walking through each of the aid stations to make sure you get not just a short walking break but a good drink too.

Galloway proposes more walking than that, but it probably isn't a completely horrible idea for someone just getting into running shape and preparing for a first race.

I would say give it a go - particularly when you are building up. See how you like it, and adjust from there.

I think I'll run 3 tomorrow and 5 on Wednesday then rest on Thursday and travel to Ogden on Friday. I always try to get a good night's sleep on Thursday night because on Friday night I'm usually a basket case and the chance of getting a significant amount of sleep is about 50/50.
I'm umping my daughter's softball game on Thursday evening. I don't usually wear the shin guards, but I think I will this time. The last thing I need is a big lump on my leg.

I'm hoping to get my best sleep Thursday night. I don't anticipate getting much on Friday - and then having to be in Ogden at 4:45am for a 7am start doesn't help much.

FYI - I took a drive up the canyon yesterday to see the race route with a friend who has never run it. The rivers are FULL. South Fork of Ogden River has the campgrounds all closed due to flooding. There was one spot where it was covering nearly 3/4 of the eastbound lane. And the river in both canyons is simply raging - quite a sight.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Eddie, niku, thanks for the responses re the run/walk thing. This morning, with the rain and all, the missus and I went to the gym and did run/walks on treadmills for nearly an hour. It was fun to alter the speeds (I'd range between 4.2 and 8.0 mph; the missus between 5 and 6.5--her "normal" walking pace is around 4.5, sheesh). Up to now, I'd been doing mainly steady (and boring) runs, with only an occasional fartlek (love that word) of 100-150 yards. Just based on this morning's experience, I'm now inclined to speedwalk a short distance occasionally, but step up the pace on the longer running stretches.

I'd love to do a sub-2 half marathon come September, but I'll settle for something a little slower than that.

[Joe Public]

Last "real" run this morning. About 4.5 miles. First three at 30 seconds faster than pace, last mile at 90 seconds faster than pace. I think my plan called for taking it easy - but it felt better to go.

Last half mile was a slow jog and walk.

I think I'm supposed to go a couple of miles on Wednesday, and then walk a couple on Thursday.

Talk about anti-climactic.

I know that you're supposed to rest and get ready for the long burn of race day - but when I've been getting up between 5-5:30 each morning to run or cross train, now what? My body isn't ready to sleep in.

I've talked to lots of folks who taper their distance but don't decrease the pace of their runs. It feels better to them, and they feel sluggish on race day if they dial the pace down during the taper. If you've logged enough miles to be ready for a marathon, then you probably already know how your body responds to different levels of intensity.

Sleep well the night before the night before. That's most important. Although last time I got a full 8 hours before the race, which was awesome.

Seconded.

[Pheidippides]

I've talked to lots of folks who taper their distance but don't decrease the pace of their runs. It feels better to them, and they feel sluggish on race day if they dial the pace down during the taper. If you've logged enough miles to be ready for a marathon, then you probably already know how your body responds to different levels of intensity.

I'm one of these people. The Tuesday before the race, I go out and blast for 2-3 miles at 10k pace, maybe even edging towards 5k pace. It's a mental thing as much as anything, and with that kind of distances I'm recovered by the weekend. And the day before I may do some quick strides.

I'd love to do a sub-2 half marathon come September, but I'll settle for something a little slower than that.

My hat's off to you if you do it! Anything sub-2 is to be respected.
I think that fartleks would be awesome for you if you are looking to add some speed training. It's a pretty simple concept: you just run a while fast, and then recover. Run to that phone pole down the way at something like 10k pace, then jog it off. That kind of thing.

[PaloAltoCougar]

...I think that fartleks would be awesome for you if you are looking to add some speed training. It's a pretty simple concept: you just run a while fast, and then recover. Run to that phone pole down the way at something like 10k pace, then jog it off. That kind of thing.

This raises a question I've had a hard time answering. How does one know what one's 10K and 5K paces are? Post-school, I've never raced, but the few times I've run a 10K, I pushed it about as hard as I'm comfortable with, probably having left a little on the table. That, and I blush to admit this, is about a 9 min/mile pace. I could possibly go a little faster, but I prefer to spend the rest of the day upright.

When I run the 5K loop around our tract, I'm not running much faster than that either, so I don't see a big diff between the 5 and 10. Is there a good way to figure out what one's pace is (or ought to be)?

[Pheidippides]

This raises a question I've had a hard time answering. How does one know what one's 10K and 5K paces are? Post-school, I've never raced, but the few times I've run a 10K, I pushed it about as hard as I'm comfortable with, probably having left a little on the table. That, and I blush to admit this, is about a 9 min/mile pace. I could possibly go a little faster, but I prefer to spend the rest of the day upright.

When I run the 5K loop around our tract, I'm not running much faster than that either, so I don't see a big diff between the 5 and 10. Is there a good way to figure out what one's pace is (or ought to be)?

I had the same problem before I had some races under my belt, and I still do to some extent because my speed changes based on training. There's several calculators that do a reasonably good job at predicting. I like the McMillan Pace Calculator the best. It's not totally accurate, but it's pretty close for me. It gives a good sense of training paces too (although they are not totally understandable without a bit of background reading).

Cool Running has a great tool to figure out paces for finish times too.

BTW, for races I typically add a tenth of a mile per 10 miles, give or take, to the distances. They are always slightly longer because they are measured on tangents. This matters for the purposes of figuring out race pace for any given race if you have time goals. So if you want to run a sub 2 hour half, you'd probably want to keep about a 9 minute/mile pace or better, even though the actual math says 9:09 per, simply because you'll be running something like 13.2 instead of 13.1.

[Eddie]

I've talked to lots of folks who taper their distance but don't decrease the pace of their runs. It feels better to them, and they feel sluggish on race day if they dial the pace down during the taper. If you've logged enough miles to be ready for a marathon, then you probably already know how your body responds to different levels of intensity.

I'm one of these people. The Tuesday before the race, I go out and blast for 2-3 miles at 10k pace, maybe even edging towards 5k pace. It's a mental thing as much as anything, and with that kind of distances I'm recovered by the weekend. And the day before I may do some quick strides.

Slow becomes awkward and torturous. I ran some Yasso 800's this morning at about 30 seconds faster than 5K pace, and with a 400 in between each at my target marathon pace. Felt really good. I ended up going about a mile and a half further than I anticipated, but I'm feeling good for the race. I'll take a long walk tomorrow, and then nothing Friday.

This raises a question I've had a hard time answering. How does one know what one's 10K and 5K paces are? Post-school, I've never raced, but the few times I've run a 10K, I pushed it about as hard as I'm comfortable with, probably having left a little on the table. That, and I blush to admit this, is about a 9 min/mile pace. I could possibly go a little faster, but I prefer to spend the rest of the day upright.

When I run the 5K loop around our tract, I'm not running much faster than that either, so I don't see a big diff between the 5 and 10. Is there a good way to figure out what one's pace is (or ought to be)?

I'll be honest - I just made up my pace to begin with. Ran at what I thought felt good and decided that was it. It's tough to figure out for distances until you've done some running to know what feels right - though I've never tried those calculators Niku linked.

[Pheidippides]

Slow becomes awkward and torturous. I ran some Yasso 800's this morning at about 30 seconds faster than 5K pace, and with a 400 in between each at my target marathon pace. Felt really good. I ended up going about a mile and a half further than I anticipated, but I'm feeling good for the race. I'll take a long walk tomorrow, and then nothing Friday.

I think speed work the week of yhe race keeps you mentally sharp. Higdon has it in his advanced schedules.

[Eddie]

Last week I ran my regular workouts - and to be honest I felt like I had lost something. Doing a pedestrian run mid week and then trying to do slower than pace for the long run - I had felt better after much longer runs a week or two ago. I was even a little concerned about how the race would go.

For my two runs this week I picked up the speed a little, and feel much better about the runs. Excited for Saturday.

[Sea Chicken]

I did three runs this week. Monday, 5 miles @7:21 in the pouring rain, Tuesday I ran a 20:24 5k and this morning I ran 5 @ 7:03. Now I'm done until Saturday morning.

[Eddie]

I did three runs this week. Monday, 5 miles @7:21 in the pouring rain, Tuesday I ran a 20:24 5k and this morning I ran 5 @ 7:03. Now I'm done until Saturday morning.

Color me jealous. Once this race is out of the way, I get to begin training for the Spudman coming up the end of July again.

I've decided that part of this will include incorporating more organized speedwork into my running. I'm also going to get back on the wagon dropping some lbs. until the beginning of July, when I get serious about race prep.

And - I will break 20 minutes in a 5K this year...I WILL!

[Sea Chicken]

Color me jealous. Once this race is out of the way, I get to begin training for the Spudman coming up the end of July again.

I've decided that part of this will include incorporating more organized speedwork into my running. I'm also going to get back on the wagon dropping some lbs. until the beginning of July, when I get serious about race prep.

And - I will break 20 minutes in a 5K this year...I WILL!

My next race will likely be a 1 mile race in June, so I'll need to get on some speed work too.

[Eddie]

My next race will likely be a 1 mile race in June, so I'll need to get on some speed work too.

My wife wants the entire family to run a local 5K on Memorial Day. 9 days after the Marathon. I'm sure I can finish - and even keep up with/beat most of the rest of the family. But this will not be my fastest finish ever...

[Joe Public]

I'll be honest - I just made up my pace to begin with. Ran at what I thought felt good and decided that was it. It's tough to figure out for distances until you've done some running to know what feels right - though I've never tried those calculators Niku linked.

Same here.

And - I will break 20 minutes in a 5K this year...I WILL!

That's my goal, too, for either this year or next year. I think my PR is around 24 minutes, so it'll be quite a feat if I do. I didn't run a 5K when I was in marathon shape, but I remember clipping off 2-mile bursts at a 6:30-ish pace on my sorta-long runs (to borrow a phrase from Hal) during that time. I guess I'll find out whether the years have been kind.

[Sea Chicken]

This morning I didn't run, so I slept in a bit. Just before I got up, I had my first "standing in line for the port-a-potty when the gun goes off" nightmare. At least it happened in the morning so it didn't cause me to lose sleep.