Cost vs benefit decisions in home renovation

[pellegrino]

We all encounter cost vs benefit decisions when deciding how to best approach a project. You want to get the most bang for your buck, add value (both tangible and intangible) to your house and feel good about your choices. Most of the decisions involve the selection of materials, but sometimes it involves structures, which is my current dilemma. I thought I'd tap the wealth of CUF's knowledge to get advice as to how to proceed.

We're renovating our basement and have to make a structural decision that will cost a significant amount. The footprint for the current bathroom is 8 feet 4 feet. Included in that space is a small sink, a toilet and a small shower. We are putting in a new toilet and sink and we have to install a new shower as well because there is a crack in the old . We have a couple of options which include moving walls to enlarge the space.

Option 1: Leave the footprint as is and re-do a traditional mortar shower pan with tiles. This is well within my abilities, but it's a lot of work.

Cost: $300 ($425 for more luxurious tiles)

Option 2: Leave the footprint as is and install a shower kit that installs directly to the studs. This might be problematic because of where the drain is now. Prefab kits always have it centered, ours is about a foot to the left of center because that's where the main drain for the house is.

Shower kit: $400
Plumbing costs: $400-$500 (it involves concrete, etc)

Option 3: Widen the bathroom to just over 5 feet and install a standard size tub. The problem with widening the wall is that we would have to move the electric service box for the entire house and the meter from the electric company (old houses do strange things). We had considered doing this anyways because we might need to upgrade from a 100 amp box to a 200 amp box. We don't have any problems now, but with future plans we might outgrow the capacity of the current box. We also like this option because the extra foot we get opens up a really tight space and makes it so we can add a bit of storage in the bathroom, which we couldn't do in the original.

Cost to move the box and meter: $1000-$1300
New Tub and surround: $500

Option 4: Similar to #3 but in addition to widening by a foot we'd lengthen the bathroom by a foot and install a garden tub.

Cost to move the box and meter: $1000-$1300
New Tub and surround: $700

What would you do? We're divided for a few reasons.

1-The primary use would be for guests and of course remove the inconvenience of going up stairs to take a leak while watching TV.

2-There are no bedrooms in the basement and there will never be any, but with three girls, we could see one or two of them possibly using it as their primary bathroom during HS.

3-While we like the option of having more space provided in options 3 and 4, we don't know that there would be a significant ROI for moving the walls. Yes, a full size tub would be nice, but a shower stall will likely give the same return as a tub. The ROI would definitely be intangible, an aesthetic factor that would give more enjoyment during the time we're in the house, which will hopefully be forever.

[Drunk Tank]

If you arent planning on selling any time soon, then it really is just a personal preferance. Personally I'd go for the last option for the largest bathroom and upgrade to the 200 amp service. I had 200 amp service at my last house and loved it. I had 2 dedicated 50 amp 220v outlets in my garage. One for my welder/plasma cutter and one for my compressor. The new place doent even have 220.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I am likely a "lone crackpot screaming into the darkess" minority opinion on this, but I would strongly caution against banking on a perceived home value ROI on any remodeling project right now. Your area may have a stronger real estate market than mine, but in the long run I would be nervous. IF you are lucky, maybe expect a 5%-15% ROI today, and probably less as house prices are still in flux. (Then again, perhaps this is blatantly obvious and not at all profound.)

Instead, I would pick the cost option that will give me the best cost/benefit ratio in terms of enjoyment and/or usability per dollar spent (and sweat/blood spilt) on the project. You make it sound as if you will be in the house for a number of years (until young girls are through high school), so that time frame and ease of use by multiple HS-aged young women should factor into the decision.

How many other bathtubs do you have in your house? Having a bathtub in the basement bathroom is a nicety but unless your girls LOVE to take baths it likely won't be used more than a few times a year. If you experience colder temperatures there is a good chance it will never be used as a bath. If you have other tubs above ground level, the tub in the basement might not see any actual use. One of our first apartments was a basement apartment, and my wife chose a bath over a shower perhaps 2 times in the 30+ months we lived there. She said the (porcelain over steel) bath tub cooled down too fast to make a bath enjoyable. That factor might influence your need for a bath, and thus to move the walls.

How much experience do you have installing tiles? If not, it is fun to learn. You can do much in the way of customizing the install to make it truly wonderful. Install a bench, custom doors, soap dishes, custom tile design flourishes, whatever.

If you do the tile job yourself, spoil yourself and go with the premium tiles. The amount of work is exactly the same, and in a month or two you will not care one bit about the $150 you saved by purchasing cheaper tiles.

Shower kits are fast and easy to install, although as you say you will need to move the drain ($$). That is certainly an option.

I agree with DTs about upgrading to the 200 amp service (thought I disagree with needing the larger bathroom with the tub). I have it and love it because I can run my compressor, a shopvac, dryer, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, hair dryer, etc., all at the same time without popping the breakers...

[jay santos]

They say kitchen and bathroom or finishing basement gets you some return. Maybe 50%. Anything else, not much.

[SportUTE]

The difference between the two bathroom options are pretty much a rounding error as far as what the increased value of your home will be although having a plumbed bathroom for the downstairs will make your house more sellable.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[wuapinmon]

pilgrim,

I like option #3. Moving the box and upgrading is a good move. When we bought our current place, it didn't have a service disconnect. I told the previous owner that I wouldn't buy the place unless they had one put in before closing. They did, and during the kitchen remodel, the electrician ran separate circuits for the garbage disposal and fridge. We still have tons of room in the box, and I'm not worried about tripping any breakers because the 50 y/o circuits were overloaded.

[pellegrino]

I am likely a "lone crackpot screaming into the darkess" minority opinion on this, but I would strongly caution against banking on a perceived home value ROI on any remodeling project right now. Your area may have a stronger real estate market than mine, but in the long run I would be nervous. IF you are lucky, maybe expect a 5%-15% ROI today, and probably less as house prices are still in flux. (Then again, perhaps this is blatantly obvious and not at all profound.)

Instead, I would pick the cost option that will give me the best cost/benefit ratio in terms of enjoyment and/or usability per dollar spent (and sweat/blood spilt) on the project. You make it sound as if you will be in the house for a number of years (until young girls are through high school), so that time frame and ease of use by multiple HS-aged young women should factor into the decision.

How many other bathtubs do you have in your house? Having a bathtub in the basement bathroom is a nicety but unless your girls LOVE to take baths it likely won't be used more than a few times a year. If you experience colder temperatures there is a good chance it will never be used as a bath. If you have other tubs above ground level, the tub in the basement might not see any actual use. One of our first apartments was a basement apartment, and my wife chose a bath over a shower perhaps 2 times in the 30+ months we lived there. She said the (porcelain over steel) bath tub cooled down too fast to make a bath enjoyable. That factor might influence your need for a bath, and thus to move the walls.

How much experience do you have installing tiles? If not, it is fun to learn. You can do much in the way of customizing the install to make it truly wonderful. Install a bench, custom doors, soap dishes, custom tile design flourishes, whatever.

If you do the tile job yourself, spoil yourself and go with the premium tiles. The amount of work is exactly the same, and in a month or two you will not care one bit about the $150 you saved by purchasing cheaper tiles.

Shower kits are fast and easy to install, although as you say you will need to move the drain ($$). That is certainly an option.

I agree with DTs about upgrading to the 200 amp service (thought I disagree with needing the larger bathroom with the tub). I have it and love it because I can run my compressor, a shopvac, dryer, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, hair dryer, etc., all at the same time without popping the breakers...

I think we'll get most of what we put into it. We bought the house for a steal and have put a lot of work/money into it. If we're to believe the estimate we got a few months ago then it's worth about $40k more than what we've put into it. That said, I expect that whatever I do down there will give me a return, maybe even equal to what I put in it, but I obviously want to be as wise with my money as possible.

We have a bathroom on the upper level, a half bath on the main level and then this bathroom in the basement. My wife uses the bathtub quite a bit, but even she doesn't know how much use we'd use that tub. None of the houses in our neighborhood (all town houses built in the 40s and 50s) has a tub in the basement, we could distinguish ourselves with that, but who knows.

I have enough experience doing tile to feel comfortable installing a traditional shower pan. It's not rocket science, it's just a lot of time consuming work. Time is my worst enemy.

pilgrim,

I like option #3. Moving the box and upgrading is a good move. When we bought our current place, it didn't have a service disconnect. I told the previous owner that I wouldn't buy the place unless they had one put in before closing. They did, and during the kitchen remodel, the electrician ran separate circuits for the garbage disposal and fridge. We still have tons of room in the box, and I'm not worried about tripping any breakers because the 50 y/o circuits were overloaded.

I think the decision is going to come down to whether or not we upgrade the service box, which is something I had hoped to put off. I need to get more information and some good advice because I don't know how many of the circuits are actually being used and I don't know if the wire coming to the house is sufficient for a 200 amp draw. Shouldn't be too hard to find these things out.