Has everyone had crazy Bishops and SP?

[ERCougar]

You could also explain to your kids that the Church's historical obsession with masturbation in particular is partly based on some very strange and completely inaccurate ideas of Brigham Young regarding something called a homunculus.

There was an interesting article written on the evolution of the Church's attitude toward masturbation in relationship to society's overall attitude toward it:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/5p211f5b48gpdglv/

LOL...what on earth does the homunculus have to do with masturbation? Please expound. This may be my new favorite BY topic.

[RobinFinderson]

LOL! I thought of another one. Bishop in my ward at BYU, freshman year, explains to entire joint Sunday School that if there was no gospel and the church wasn't true then there would be no reason not to live it up, killing and stealing and doing drugs and being promiscuous. For some people the gospel really is the only thread keeping them decent.

[ERCougar]

LOL! I thought of another one. Bishop in my ward at BYU, freshman year, explains to entire joint Sunday School that if there was no gospel and the church wasn't true then there would be no reason not to live it up, killing and stealing and doing drugs and being promiscuous. For some people the gospel really is the only thread keeping them decent.

Oh, I hear that one all the time, in varying degrees. When I posted about my problem with the whole church discipline system (I still haven't heard a single good justification of the system--feel free to chime in, anyone), I remember the reply "Without the threat of excommunication why wouldn't everyone just cheat on their wives?"

[Art Vandelay]

As I read some of the above posts I realize others experiences with Bishops or Stake Presidents are so different than mine, I honestly can't relate to the feeling of mistrust, resentment, or anger that many are going through or have previously experienced. Perhaps the Lord knows I'm not strong enough to endure what other have had to pass through so I have been given a very smooth priesthood leader ride so far.

I think my weaknesses far outweigh my strengths, but one thing I have been able to bring to my current calling is I know what it is like to sit on both sides of the desk. I'm grateful for the unconditional love others have shown, and try, often poorly, to emulate it. I always have one goal with every person I meet with, to help them feel better about themselves and the Savior walking out the door than they did walking in.

Some of the best advice I received was from my FIL and my brother. My FIL told me, "some days you will be a good bishop, others a good father and others a good businessman, rare will be the day when you are good at all three". I have never been that great of juggler, but at least I try and pick up the balls and try again when I have dropped one or all three.

My brother's counsel was that I would often be seeing people on one of the worst days of their lives and even if I'm tired, have heard their "story" dozens of times before or am late to get somewhere else to be considerate of how important this time is for them not for me.

I just reread my post and debate whether or not to post it, it sounds very self-serving. However, I think I will leave it for the sole purpose that for those who have had bad experiences in the past, realize leaders change, time teaches us all different lessons. Hopefully someday, if it hasn't already, there will someone who can help you find the balm of gilead.

[ERCougar]

As I read some of the above posts I realize others experiences with Bishops or Stake Presidents are so different than mine, I honestly can't relate to the feeling of mistrust, resentment, or anger that many are going through or have previously experienced. Perhaps the Lord knows I'm not strong enough to endure what other have had to pass through so I have been given a very smooth priesthood leader ride so far.

I think my weaknesses far outweigh my strengths, but one thing I have been able to bring to my current calling is I know what it is like to sit on both sides of the desk. I'm grateful for the unconditional love others have shown, and try, often poorly, to emulate it. I always have one goal with every person I meet with, to help them feel better about themselves and the Savior walking out the door than they did walking in.

Some of the best advice I received was from my FIL and my brother. My FIL told me, "some days you will be a good bishop, others a good father and others a good businessman, rare will be the day when you are good at all three". I have never been that great of juggler, but at least I try and pick up the balls and try again when I have dropped one or all three.

My brother's counsel was that I would often be seeing people on one of the worst days of their lives and even if I'm tired, have heard their "story" dozens of times before or am late to get somewhere else to be considerate of how important this time is for them not for me.

I just reread my post and debate whether or not to post it, it sounds very self-serving. However, I think I will leave it for the sole purpose that for those who have had bad experiences in the past, realize leaders change, time teaches us all different lessons. Hopefully someday, if it hasn't already, there will someone who can help you find the balm of gilead.

It's not self-serving. I appreciate hearing your perspective. Keep posting.

I've had good bishops and SPs for the most part, but even so, I am still very much against the Church Discipline process. So much harm can be done and really, I just don't see a benefit (or at least one that can't be gleaned from voluntary confession without the threat of consequences).

[wuapinmon]

LOL! I thought of another one. Bishop in my ward at BYU, freshman year, explains to entire joint Sunday School that if there was no gospel and the church wasn't true then there would be no reason not to live it up, killing and stealing and doing drugs and being promiscuous. For some people the gospel really is the only thread keeping them decent.

This is why we should teach the Classics. Socrates might've come up out of his hemlock stupor and slapped that nimrod.

[Art Vandelay]

It's not self-serving. I appreciate hearing your perspective. Keep posting.

I've had good bishops and SPs for the most part, but even so, I am still very much against the Church Discipline process. So much harm can be done and really, I just don't see a benefit (or at least one that can't be gleaned from voluntary confession without the threat of consequences).

My only experiences with discipline have all involved the restoration of blessings and the ending of formal discipline. These have been some of the most spiritual experiences I have ever been involved with. Having never dealt with the other side, I don't have much insight or perspective to offer. I do think yours is a very valid point though.

[CardiacCoug]

LOL...what on earth does the homunculus have to do with masturbation? Please expound. This may be my new favorite BY topic.

Not the neurological homunculus, but the little guy thought to reside in semen. Many people in Brigham Young's day and earlier thought that there was a "little man" or a homunculus contained in semen that would eventually germinate into a person after sex. So it was important not to waste semen and maybe even something akin to murder to waste semen.

In one of D. Michael Quinn's books he talks about how the First Presidency under Brigham Young's direction in 1849 taught that married couples should only have sex during fertile periods, waiting 7 days after cessation of menstruation and several weeks following childbirth (that part actually a good idea). Some of this was following guidelines in Leviticus, I believe.

Also, in the Bible, God killed Onan for practicing coitus interruptus. This apparently made an impression on Brigham Young and other Church leaders, and I think the homunculus reasoning is just theory based on what other people of his day thought -- there was no official statement on the rationale for being against masturbation and limiting intercourse to fertile periods.

[wuapinmon]

If I remember correctly....the CHOI Book 1 doesn't even say the word masturbation anywhere. I think it evens counsels bishops to "not arouse curiosity" via their lines of questioning in interviews with the youth.

[il Padrino Ute]

Not the neurological homunculus, but the little guy thought to reside in semen. Many people in Brigham Young's day and earlier thought that there was a "little man" or a homunculus contained in semen that would eventually germinate into a person after sex. So it was important not to waste semen and maybe even something akin to murder to waste semen.

In one of D. Michael Quinn's books he talks about how the First Presidency under Brigham Young's direction in 1849 taught that married couples should only have sex during fertile periods, waiting 7 days after cessation of menstruation and several weeks following childbirth (that part actually a good idea). Some of this was following guidelines in Leviticus, I believe.

Also, in the Bible, God killed Onan for practicing coitus interruptus. This apparently made an impression on Brigham Young and other Church leaders, and I think the homunculus reasoning is just theory based on what other people of his day thought -- there was no official statement on the rationale for being against masturbation and limiting intercourse to fertile periods.

Don't forget about the poor kittens

[Art Vandelay]

Don't forget about the poor kittens

You will have to clarify, is that a vote for or against?

[Drunk Tank]

Don't forget about the poor kittens

We must not have alot of teenagers in our neighborhood. We have a ton of strays.




I seem to recall a talk by Pres. Benson saying that masturbation leads to homosexulity? I cant find it on LDS.org, so maybe I am mistaken....

[The_Tick]

Lol DT...

It turned me into a lesbian.

[Drunk Tank]

Lol DT...

It turned me into a lesbian.

Fooled me, you love to cook, shop, clean........I could go on.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I seem to recall a talk by Pres. Benson saying that masturbation leads to homosexulity? I cant find it on LDS.org, so maybe I am mistaken....

Spencer W. Kimball