How much tragedy or burdens can one sustain before all faith is lost?

[fizz assist]

Depending on the answer, I may just decide that God is too cruel and that I don't believe in him.

OK, this is the part that really puzzles me. Why does God being cruel or not influence whether or not you think he/she/it really exists? If an all-powerful being just happens to be wrechedly cruel why should that influence what we think about that being's existence. I constantly hear people say, "I could never believe in a God who . . . . . . " That seems to me to be an admission that their concept of God is just an imaginary friend that the person has constructed in their head.

Personally I believe in a God that is 100% evil but only 80% effective.

[UtahDan]

OK, this is the part that really puzzles me. Why does God being cruel or not influence whether or not you think he/she/it really exists? If an all-powerful being just happens to be wrechedly cruel why should that influence what we think about that being's existence. I constantly hear people say, "I could never believe in a God who . . . . . . " That seems to me to be an admission that their concept of God is just an imaginary friend that the person has constructed in their head.

Personally I believe in a God that is 100% evil but only 80% effective.

You are going to have to ask someone else. I was kidding. I thought I was clear that this isn't what I think.

But just to be clear, you don't see the fact of human suffering as being evidence that there is no God, right? Because if you do then you are guilty of the same thing. I assume you just aren't persuaded by the evidence in favor of a God? Or do you see evidence against? In light of your comments I would be really interested to know if you think there is evidence against.

[fizz assist]

You are going to have to ask someone else. I was kidding. I thought I was clear that this isn't what I think.

Yes but you were kind enough to serve as a foil.
"They also serve who only stand there and get laughed at." --Aristophanis (younger cousin of Aristophanes)

But just to be clear, you don't see the fact of human suffering as being evidence that there is no God, right? Because if you do then you are guilty of the same thing.

You lost me on that one. I don't know what "same thing" I'm guilty of.

I assume you just aren't persuaded by the evidence in favor of a God? Or do you see evidence against? In light of your comments I would be really interested to know if you think there is evidence against.

Someone much smarter than I [or is it "than me?"] once said, "you can't prove God doesn't exist, you just have to take it on faith."

[UtahDan]

You lost me on that one. I don't know what "same thing" I'm guilty of.

It was probably stated inartfully. You had said that when people say "I can't believe in a God who ______" that it seemed to you that their conception of God was no more than a projection of their own thoughts and beliefs. What prevents God from being evil for example.

Since you had touched on the subject of human suffering, I thought that it would be interesting to know whether you saw that suffering as evidence that there is no God. If you do see that as evidence that there is not God, then you are also projecting your own thoughts and beliefs into the notion of what God is. I don't know that you are doing that; that is why I asked.

Make sense?

[LA Ute]

How can one not blame God for such misfortune? How can one not stop believing in a God that allows parents, spouses, and children to experience so much sorrow and tragedy in their lives?

I have a little recent experience with such matters, and I suspect my response was fairly typical. No rational person, going through a serious trial involving harm to those close to him or her, can avoid at least acknowledging the question that is the elephant in the room: Our loving Heavenly Father could have spared us this, but did not. Why?

Before I had to confront that question, I had all kinds of rational reponses to it. But when I was the one grappling with the question in a very personal way, I found it's a very different experience. Our family has hung on, so far, and we all agree that although we would never choose to have our experience or wish it on anyone, we are better for it. For one thing, I'll never see anyone who has had even a remotely similar experience the same way, and I will also be in a position to help.

But the road to that point is full of sleepless nights and soul-searching. I remember reading a lot of Jeffrey Holland and Neal Maxwell talks. For us, it was possible to hang on, but at the same time, we can all see how others may struggle more, and we will not judge them.

[fizz assist]

It was probably stated inartfully. You had said that when people say "I can't believe in a God who ______" that it seemed to you that their conception of God was no more than a projection of their own thoughts and beliefs. What prevents God from being evil for example.

Since you had touched on the subject of human suffering, I thought that it would be interesting to know whether you saw that suffering as evidence that there is no God. If you do see that as evidence that there is not God, then you are also projecting your own thoughts and beliefs into the notion of what God is. I don't know that you are doing that; that is why I asked.

Make sense?

I think you are jumping levels here. I don't see how humans can, a priori, impose conditions on God for his existence to be believed. I'm not imposing any conditions on God, I'm discussing the fact that many people do and that this strikes me as weird.

I'm not discussing the nature of God as much as discussing the nature of belief in God.

[UtahDan]

I think you are jumping levels here. I don't see how humans can, a priori, impose conditions on God for his existence to be believed. I'm not imposing any conditions on God, I'm discussing the fact that many people do and that this strikes me as weird.

I'm not discussing the nature of God as much as discussing the nature of belief in God.

I understand that. And yes I was changing the subject a little. If you don't want to talk about whether you see human suffering as evidence that there is no God you don't have to. Or maybe you did answer my question when you said just now you don't impose any conditions upon the concept of a God.

Based on your comments I was curious to know whether you have concluded that God does not exists or whether you merely say you don't know.