Going to the temple for the first time in almost 2 years.

[UtahDan]

I was drawn to the idea of being honest with ourselves (and others, when appropriate) about our feelings. If our hearts are all locked up because we are repressing our uncomfortable feelings, I think the Spirit has a tough time helping us. In a way, a heart that is not honest with itself is a hardened heart. I think it's important to go to God in prayer and tell him exactly how we feel. Mormons (and maybe others, I don't know) often don't want to own our feelings.

That said, one of the scriptures I love most is Moroni 10:5. I think what you and I are talking about is how to tap into that power. Cowboy is (I suppose) curious about how you see that, and the importance generally of the Spirit. I'll bet you and he are not far apart.

This calls to mind 1 Nephi 5 (probably because I was teaching it this morning). Lehi takes Sariah away from her home, friends, extended family worldly goods and she is okay with it. He drags her around the wilderness with their sons and she is alright. He even sends the boys back to get the brass plates and she is down with that. But then quite a long time passes and they here nothing from the boys and Sariah thinks her sons are dead. She has done what she was supposed to do, but has reached her limit. She starts to feel distraught, and my supposition, good and pissed off at her husband and the Lord. She vocalizes her feelings.

I think it is important to note that no where does it say that Sariah behaved in an inappropriate way. This accords with what you are saying. She got her feelings off her chest. Lehi's response is awesome. He basically says, look, I know I am a visionary man and that this all seems crazy to you, if the Lord had not shown me a vision, I would still be in Jerusalem (one reading of that is that he is telling she has shown more faith than he has). He validates, acknowledges her doubts and fears, and comforts her.

This, to me, shows that it is the most natural thing in the world to murmur sometimes and to have those feelings. She then gets them out in the open. It also shows the right way to deal with someone who is "murmuring", that is, by acknowledging that the feelings are valid. My concern, which I expressed earlier in the thread, is that there just aren't that many people out there who will give one a "Lehi" type reaction if you express your feelings so you have to be very careful who you express them to.

[LA Ute]

This, to me, shows that it is the most natural thing in the world to murmur sometimes and to have those feelings. She then gets them out in the open. It also shows the right way to deal with someone who is "murmuring", that is, by acknowledging that the feelings are valid. My concern, which I expressed earlier in the thread, is that there just aren't that many people out there who will give one a "Lehi" type reaction if you express your feelings so you have to be very careful who you express them to.

Excellent post. I think this is a problem, something we need to be much better at in the Church. I hope it is not widespread. Everyone's experience is different, but thinking back over the last 25+ years that I have been in LA, I think all of the bishops and SPs I have had (except for perhaps 1 bishop) would have tried to emulate Lehi. Maybe I am just lucky.

[wuapinmon]

This calls to mind 1 Nephi 5 (probably because I was teaching it this morning). Lehi takes Sariah away from her home, friends, extended family worldly goods and she is okay with it. He drags her around the wilderness with their sons and she is alright. He even sends the boys back to get the brass plates and she is down with that. But then quite a long time passes and they here nothing from the boys and Sariah thinks her sons are dead. She has done what she was supposed to do, but has not reached her limit. She starts to feel distraught, and my supposition, good and pissed off at her husband and the Lord. She vocalizes her feelings.

I think it is important to note that no where does it say that Sariah behaved in an inappropriate way. This accords with what you are saying. She got her feelings off her chest. Lehi's response is awesome. He basically says, look, I know I am a visionary man and that this all seems crazy to you, if the Lord had not shown me a vision, I would still be in Jerusalem (one reading of that is that he is telling she has shown more faith than he has). He validates, acknowledges her doubts and fears, and comforts her.

This, to me, shows that it is the most natural thing in the world to murmur sometimes and to have those feelings. She then gets them out in the open. It also shows the right way to deal with someone who is "murmuring", that is, by acknowledging that the feelings are valid. My concern, which I expressed earlier in the thread, is that there just aren't that many people out there who will give one a "Lehi" type reaction if you express your feelings so you have to be very careful who you express them to.

This is a high-quality post!

[Art Vandelay]

This calls to mind 1 Nephi 5 (probably because I was teaching it this morning). Lehi takes Sariah away from her home, friends, extended family worldly goods and she is okay with it. He drags her around the wilderness with their sons and she is alright. He even sends the boys back to get the brass plates and she is down with that. But then quite a long time passes and they here nothing from the boys and Sariah thinks her sons are dead. She has done what she was supposed to do, but has not reached her limit. She starts to feel distraught, and my supposition, good and pissed off at her husband and the Lord. She vocalizes her feelings.

I think it is important to note that no where does it say that Sariah behaved in an inappropriate way. This accords with what you are saying. She got her feelings off her chest. Lehi's response is awesome. He basically says, look, I know I am a visionary man and that this all seems crazy to you, if the Lord had not shown me a vision, I would still be in Jerusalem (one reading of that is that he is telling she has shown more faith than he has). He validates, acknowledges her doubts and fears, and comforts her.

This, to me, shows that it is the most natural thing in the world to murmur sometimes and to have those feelings. She then gets them out in the open. It also shows the right way to deal with someone who is "murmuring", that is, by acknowledging that the feelings are valid. My concern, which I expressed earlier in the thread, is that there just aren't that many people out there who will give one a "Lehi" type reaction if you express your feelings so you have to be very careful who you express them to.

Excellent post. I think this is a problem, something we need to be much better at in the Church. I hope it is not widespread. Everyone's experience is different, but thinking back over the last 25+ years that I have been in LA, I think all of the bishops and SPs I have had (except for perhaps 1 bishop) would have tried to emulate Lehi. Maybe I am just lucky.

Can one or both of you change your name? I can't keep the two of you straight, and neither of you want to confused with Seattle Ute. Because you know its all about making things easier for me ...

[CardiacCoug]

I think it is important to note that no where does it say that Sariah behaved in an inappropriate way. This accords with what you are saying. She got her feelings off her chest. Lehi's response is awesome. He basically says, look, I know I am a visionary man and that this all seems crazy to you, if the Lord had not shown me a vision, I would still be in Jerusalem (one reading of that is that he is telling she has shown more faith than he has). He validates, acknowledges her doubts and fears, and comforts her.

Great post.

Lehi sounds a lot like Joseph Smith when he said something like: "No man knows my history.... I don't blame anyone for not believing in my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself."

[UtahDan]

Can one or both of you change your name? I can't keep the two of you straight, and neither of you want to confused by Seattle Ute. Because you know its all about making things easier for me ...

Nicest thing anyone has said to me in a while.

[LA Ute]

Can one or both of you change your name? I can't keep the two of you straight, and neither of you want to confused by Seattle Ute. Because you know its all about making things easier for me ...

I am the handsome one.

[LA Ute]

This is a high-quality post!

Yes, it will be stolen by me and used in a lesson or talk soon.

[Tick's wife]

I used to love to go to the temple...When I first got endowed, I went every other week to the Seattle Temple...it was great, peaceful...Then Tick and I got married in the LA temple and we went regularly for a long time. Now, well, he went a lot with the youth and I went along when someone got endowed or married. I don't know, I just feel really odd there recently. It is so weird and bizarre. I just can't bring myself to go anymore...it seems so surreal and just strange....I don't know what happened....maybe I'll get back there some day....still have the recommend, just don't go....

The smarter I get, the dumber I am....TIck's says I analyze things too much.

[Soccermom]

The smarter I get, the dumber I am....TIck's says I analyze things too much.

That is an interesting comment. Sometimes it seems that the more I think, the less I feel, as it pertains to spiritual things. It confuses me. Maybe ignorance is bliss after all.

I'm glad you are posting on CUF, btw.

[RobinFinderson]

I used to love to go to the temple...When I first got endowed, I went every other week to the Seattle Temple...it was great, peaceful...Then Tick and I got married in the LA temple and we went regularly for a long time. Now, well, he went a lot with the youth and I went along when someone got endowed or married. I don't know, I just feel really odd there recently. It is so weird and bizarre. I just can't bring myself to go anymore...it seems so surreal and just strange....I don't know what happened....maybe I'll get back there some day....still have the recommend, just don't go....

The smarter I get, the dumber I am....TIck's says I analyze things too much.

I am excited that the running contests have brought more wives onto the board, but I'm even more happy when one decides to hang out and start posting. Welcome to the board!

[Rosebud]

That is an interesting comment. Sometimes it seems that the more I think, the less I feel, as it pertains to spiritual things. It confuses me. Maybe ignorance is bliss after all.

I'm glad you are posting on CUF, btw.

Sometimes I really wish that I could be happy not thinking. In many ways life would be pleasant if I didn't ask questions. Every once in a while I even get jealous of people who are content with the status quo. Of course, as soon as these thoughts cross my mind (and it occurs to me how crazy it is to be thinking about thinking), I realize that my question asking has helped me solve so many problems in my life that I wouldn't really trade it for ignorance and bliss. Still.... I can't help but wonder if the grass might be greener on the other side. I bet I'd have more problems, though.

Glad to have you here Tick's wife .

[Surfah]

Sometimes I really wish that I could be happy not thinking. In many ways life would be pleasant if I didn't ask questions. Every once in a while I even get jealous of people who are content with the status quo. Of course, as soon as these thoughts cross my mind (and it occurs to me how crazy it is to be thinking about thinking), I realize that my question asking has helped me solve so many problems in my life that I wouldn't really trade it for ignorance and bliss. Still.... I can't help but wonder if the grass might be greener on the other side. I bet I'd have more problems, though.

Glad to have you here Tick's wife .

There is nothing wrong with asking questions. I think to stop would be a greater betrayal to yourself than feigning ignorance.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Sometimes I really wish that I could be happy not thinking. In many ways life would be pleasant if I didn't ask questions. Every once in a while I even get jealous of people who are content with the status quo. Of course, as soon as these thoughts cross my mind (and it occurs to me how crazy it is to be thinking about thinking), I realize that my question asking has helped me solve so many problems in my life that I wouldn't really trade it for ignorance and bliss. Still.... I can't help but wonder if the grass might be greener on the other side. I bet I'd have more problems, though.

Glad to have you here Tick's wife .

your comments remind me of the guy eating prime rib in "The Matrix" as he says that "ignorance is bliss"

[Rosebud]

your comments remind me of the guy eating prime rib in "The Matrix" as he says that "ignorance is bliss"

lol... exactly

There is nothing wrong with asking questions. I think to stop would be a greater betrayal to yourself than feigning ignorance.

I'm glad that you think so. For me, doubt and questioning are a tool I use to find truth and ultimately increase my understanding of God and develop a closer relationship to him. Sometimes being a questioner is difficult because many view questioning as a indication of weakness rather than strength and a desire to learn more. Mormon culture teaches us that doubt is the opposite of faith. We have the idea that those who doubt are less righteous and less worthy than those who never question. For example, last conference Elder Kevin W. Pearson of the seventy said:

First is doubt. Doubt is not a principle of the gospel. It does not come from the Light of Christ or the influence of the Holy Ghost. Doubt is a negative emotion related to fear. It comes from a lack of confidence in one’s self or abilities. It is inconsistent with our divine identity as children of God.

For me, being afraid to question and doubt would be inconsistent with my divine identity as a child of God. In my experience, having the courage to ask questions is the first step to finding answers. Fear, to me, is the opposite of faith. Those who have strong faith, then, have no need to be afraid of questioning and doubting. In the end the consequences of not questioning are more fearsome than the consequences of questioning (IMO).