For the the disenchanted and former LDS

[Art Vandelay]

Prologue: I will admit than when I first started pondering this question I was thinking of posting primarily to troll out a response from a specific poster. However, the more I have thought about it the more curious and interested in thoughtful answers I become. I apologize in advance if this comes across as either condescending or so poorly worded as to not merit discussion.

I think it safe to say that most fully invested (a broncoism for the many Utes on here ) members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be happy if a close friend or associate decided to embrace Mormonism and join the church as a result of his example and efforts. My question is for those disenchanted or former members of the church would the opposite also be true? Meaning would there be any sense of sanctification if a active Mormon elected to disavow his religion primarily due to your arguments, advice, or example?

[Taq Man]

Prologue: I will admit than when I first started pondering this question I was thinking of posting primarily to troll out a response from a specific poster. However, the more I have thought about it the more curious and interested in thoughtful answers I become. I apologize in advance if this comes across as either condescending or so poorly worded as to not merit discussion.

I think it safe to say that most fully invested (a broncoism for the many Utes on here ) members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be happy if a close friend or associate decided to embrace Mormonism and join the church as a result of his example and efforts. My question is for those disenchanted or former members of the church would the opposite also be true? Meaning would there be any sense of sanctification if a active Mormon elected to disavow his religion primarily due to your arguments, advice, or example?

I really could not care less either way. I think there are people who feel things spiritually and make decisions to stay in spite of what they know and there are those who don't feel things quite so strongly who decide to leave.

I respect both equally. I do however find it annoying to talk to Mormons who have no earthly idea what their church is about beyond the cool aid they lap up every Sunday.

[Art Vandelay]

I really could not care less either way. I think there are people who feel things spiritually and make decisions to stay in spite of what they know and there are those who don't feel things quite so strongly who decide to leave.

I respect both equally. I do however find it annoying to talk to Mormons who have no earthly idea what their church is about beyond the cool aid they lap up every Sunday.

I am the last person on here that should ever comment on a grammatical error. However, just to clarify I assume you meant to reference Kool-Aid with the implied Jonestown reference. I think a cool aid would be if an EQ teacher brought a python and rat to demonstrate the effect of becoming entangled in sin. I'm ok lapping up one, the other would be a little too freaky for me.

[Taq Man]

I am the last person on here that should ever comment on a grammatical error. However, just to clarify I assume you meant to reference Kool-Aid with the implied Jonestown reference. I think a cool aid would be if an EQ teacher brought a python and rat to demonstrate the effect of becoming entangled in sin. I'm ok lapping up one, the other would be a little too freaky for me.

OH YEAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[scottie]

I am the last person on here that should ever comment on a grammatical error. However, just to clarify I assume you meant to reference Kool-Aid with the implied Jonestown reference. I think a cool aid would be if an EQ teacher brought a python and rat to demonstrate the effect of becoming entangled in sin. I'm ok lapping up one, the other would be a little too freaky for me.

That's the type of EQ class I could endure.

[BigPiney]

OH YEAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[Jarid in Cedar]

Prologue: I will admit than when I first started pondering this question I was thinking of posting primarily to troll out a response from a specific poster. However, the more I have thought about it the more curious and interested in thoughtful answers I become. I apologize in advance if this comes across as either condescending or so poorly worded as to not merit discussion.

I think it safe to say that most fully invested (a broncoism for the many Utes on here ) members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be happy if a close friend or associate decided to embrace Mormonism and join the church as a result of his example and efforts. My question is for those disenchanted or former members of the church would the opposite also be true? Meaning would there be any sense of sanctification if a active Mormon elected to disavow his religion primarily due to your arguments, advice, or example?

I am happy anytime discussions make a person examine the church and their faith more critically. Whether you make a critical analysis and remain faithful or fall away is irrelevant to me.

[byu71]

This is just a guess. I think there are those who have fallen away and found a new faith or belief and they are as sincere about bringing someone to their truth as faithful members are about bringing others to the LDS faith.

I don't like the tactics of evangelicals who stand outside the conference center, but I don't doubt they believe we (LDS) are doomed.


There is another group I would guess who leave and are extremely bitter. They get joy out of hurting the church. Leading a member out of the church helps in that joy.

Of course, I really believe most really couldn't care less.

[Jarid in Cedar]

There is another group I would guess who leave and are extremely bitter. They get joy out of hurting the church. Leading a member out of the church helps in that joy.

Of course, I really believe most really couldn't care less.

I don't think there is much joy in it. They may derive some level of satisfaction from it, but joy wouldn't be part of the equation. They lash out in anger, hurt, or frustration. Similar to kicking your dog after a bad day at work, there is not much joy in that.

[il Padrino Ute]

SU and I have our differences, but he has stated several times that he is only trying to help and I've come to believe his sincerity. I think he'd be happy if someone decided to make an honest effort and decided that what he believes is something worth pursuing.

[byu71]

I don't think there is much joy in it. They may derive some level of satisfaction from it, but joy wouldn't be part of the equation. They lash out in anger, hurt, or frustration. Similar to kicking your dog after a bad day at work, there is not much joy in that.

I think you are right, joy is not the word. I am not sure what the word is, but I have known the feeling, like when my ex-wifes second and third marriages didn't work out.

[Indy Coug]

I think you are right, joy is not the word. I am not sure what the word is, but I have known the feeling, like when my ex-wifes second and third marriages didn't work out.

The word you and perhaps some others are searching for is "VALIDATION".

You're welcome in advance.

[LA Ute]

I appreciate it whenever someone shares something with me that he or she thinks is of great worth. Many of my evangelical friends are concerned for my soul. I get that, and they also get that I am concerned for theirs (although a lot less stridently, it seems to me). I think Seattle - that poor, unfortunate, deluded soul - - is trying to share something he considers of great worth.

I have that conversation with close friends of other faiths regularly. When I know them well enough that they do not fear that I am simply recruiting them, I explain that we Mormons are generally big chickens when it comes to sharing our faith, and that when we finally screw up our courage enough to do so, it's usually with a friend we are close enough to, and care enough about, that we feel we just have to share what we believe with them - and we don't fear we will be misunderstood.

A little off-topic but you made me think of it.

[woot]

I think the satisfaction that one receives from helping someone into the fold is less about eternal salvation and more about our tribalistic instincts. It's not that eternal salvation isn't the actual motivation, but only that such terminology is a subconscious cover for what lies underneath. Because of this, I would guess that those without an organization probably receive less satisfaction from deconverting people, but I have to admit that seeing anyone start to honestly evaluate previously unchallenged beliefs is always a good thing.

I like hanging out on here not for the purpose of getting people to challenge beliefs -- CB would be much more fertile soil for that, as it seems most on here have already done so, with varying effects -- but because I enjoy discussing things with people that have similar backgrounds, even if I have completely forsaken that background.

[Tim]

I am the last person on here that should ever comment on a grammatical error. However, just to clarify I assume you meant to reference Kool-Aid with the implied Jonestown reference. I think a cool aid would be if an EQ teacher brought a python and rat to demonstrate the effect of becoming entangled in sin. I'm ok lapping up one, the other would be a little too freaky for me.

And I hate to be the trivia jerk, but the offending beverage at Jonestown was actually Flavor Aid, not Kool-Aid.