Whose fault? Yours or the church's?

[TripletDaddy]

I concur. It was quite a shock to find out all the stuff I hadn't been told, and it made me resentful for a time. I got over it, though, under the LA Ute line of thinking: if I can accept angelic visitations and such, stones in hats ain't that bad.

one advantage to being a convert....you can hear all the crazy stuff before you sign up. When I was teaching in the MTC, I would have missionaries ask me whether it was true that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. I never could figure out how in the world these people could hit 19-20 yrs of age and not know about some of these basic things? One sister in particular was very upset in the MTC when she heard from fellow missionaries that JS was a polygamist. I guess she was some sort of relative down the line and was taught by her parents that it wasn't true. She actually cried when she found out.

The South Park episode received a big "so what?" from me, at least doctrinally. As it has been mentioned before....if you believe that Jesus resurrected, not sure why using a hat to translate is so shocking.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Sure, there's that.

There's also the little detail that when someone translates something, they're typically looking at the text they're translating...or at least they're in the same room.

Yes.

[pellegrino]

Indeed. I wish I had a brilliant solution to this. How to deal with the lowest common denominator problem?

(Maybe each ward needs to have 2 Gospel Doctrine classes, one for people who can handle "could be disturbing" stuff and another for those not quite ready. The flaw in this idea is that I would need to be in charge of deciding who goes into which class, and the Church is too big for me to do it everywhere.)

Can't people just self select? The only people required/encouraged to go to Gospel Principles are new converts. In every ward I've been in there are plenty of people who don't fit that demographic, yet attend Gospel Principles. It could even be optional for wards to implement. One ward I was in wouldn't have had more than a few people interested, yet another ward would have easily outnumbered the traditional curriculum.

I think most of it could be solved with a change in the instructor's manual would be solve most of the problems. It's ridiculous that parents are expected to learn from the same curriculum written for their teenagers.

[TripletDaddy]

Can't people just self select? The only people required/encouraged to go to Gospel Principles are new converts. In every ward I've been in there are plenty of people who don't fit that demographic, yet attend Gospel Principles. It could even be optional for wards to implement. One ward I was in wouldn't have had more than a few people interested, yet another ward would have easily outnumbered the traditional curriculum.

I think most of it could be solved with a change in the instructor's manual would be solve most of the problems. It's ridiculous that parents are expected to learn from the same curriculum written for their teenagers.

Don't new converts go to Gospel Essentials? Gospel Principles is a different class, no?

[pellegrino]

Don't new converts go to Gospel Essentials? Gospel Principles is a different class, no?

I think it's one of those tomato/tomahto kind of things. It might be that it used to be called Gospel Principles, now it's called Gospel Essentials. I can't remember though as I've heard both terms used to refer to the same class.

[TripletDaddy]

I think it's one of those tomato/tomahto kind of things. It might be that it used to be called Gospel Principles, now it's called Gospel Essentials. I can't remember though as I've heard both terms used to refer to the same class.

i thought they were two distinct classes. the one that the new converts attend is essentials. the standard sunday school class that everyone attends is called principles.

[Donuthole]

i thought they were two distinct classes. the one that the new converts attend is essentials. the standard sunday school class that everyone attends is called principles.

Doctrine?

[TripletDaddy]

Doctrine?

ah yes...gospel doctrine. ok, my bad. so is the gospel essentials class basically the gospel "principles" class?

I guess it would help if I went to Sunday School.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

ah yes...gospel doctrine. ok, my bad. so is the gospel essentials class basically the gospel "principles" class?

I guess it would help if I went to Sunday School.

In fact the Gospel Principles/Essentials class just got a new manual. It was discussed here on CUF.

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=8041

[Donuthole]

In fact the Gospel Principles/Essentials class just got a new manual. It was discussed here on CUF.
http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=8041

I think TripleDiddy already conceded that he doesn't remember everything on CUF. No need to rub it in.

[UtahDan]

I think it's one of those tomato/tomahto kind of things. It might be that it used to be called Gospel Principles, now it's called Gospel Essentials. I can't remember though as I've heard both terms used to refer to the same class.

A year and a half ago a friend from our neighborhood got baptized (my wife gets all the credit) and we attended gospel essentials with her for a couple months. She is a bright gal who works in academia, teaches a course on feminism among other things and is finishing her PhD in anthropology. Anyway, she would ask these great questions that a person who has been socialized into the church very long would not feel comfortable asking. It was kind of fun watching the instructor (a guy in his 60s) take a very weak stab at answers. Partly we attended with her because we were afraid of what he was going to say (based on some experience with him).

I guess my point is that there is a socialization that occurs where people start worrying that they question too much or are not faithful enough. But this need not be. I'm not sure why it is. Those discussions in gospel essentials where great and no one was uncomfortable with the discussion because it was a new convert asking. I wish we could bottle that somehow and dump it out in our other classess.

[LA Ute]

A year and a half ago a friend from our neighborhood got baptized (my wife gets all the credit) and we attended gospel essentials with her for a couple months. She is a bright gal who works in academia, teaches a course on feminism among other things and is finishing her PhD in anthropology. Anyway, she would ask these great questions that a person who has been socialized into the church very long would not feel comfortable asking. It was kind of fun watching the instructor (a guy in his 60s) take a very weak stab at answers. Partly we attended with her because we were afraid of what he was going to say (based on some experience with him).

I guess my point is that there is a socialization that occurs where people start worrying that they question too much or are not faithful enough. But this need not be. I'm not sure why it is. Those discussions in gospel essentials where great and no one was uncomfortable with the discussion because it was a new convert asking. I wish we could bottle that somehow and dump it out in our other classess.

Too often the Gospel Essentials class gets taught by a teacher who is kind of an afterthought. I think that teacher ouhgt to be very sharp. I prefer having the WML teach the class - and I think that guy always needs to be very sharp.

[LA Ute]

Can't people just self select? The only people required/encouraged to go to Gospel Principles are new converts. In every ward I've been in there are plenty of people who don't fit that demographic, yet attend Gospel Principles. It could even be optional for wards to implement. One ward I was in wouldn't have had more than a few people interested, yet another ward would have easily outnumbered the traditional curriculum.

I think most of it could be solved with a change in the instructor's manual would be solve most of the problems. It's ridiculous that parents are expected to learn from the same curriculum written for their teenagers.

I was just kidding of course, and I agree with you completely on self-selection.

[UtahDan]

Too often the Gospel Essentials class gets taught by a teacher who is kind of an afterthought. I think that teacher ought to be very sharp. I prefer having the WML teach the class - and I think that guy always needs to be very sharp.

WML=?

White Melchizedek Leader?

Women's Melaluka Liaison?

Willing McConkie Lapdog?

[Taq Man]

Why is the head in the hat method any stranger than some breastplate, bows and eyeglasses that you supposedly dug out of the ground?

John Q Mormon: You know, I can accept a guy strapping on some foreign apparatus that no one has ever heard of to translate, but putting your head in a hat? I'm sorry, but I ain't buyin' it.

The main problem with this method is that the plates were not used. Translation as it is generally understood requires looking at the plates. From the accounts given by the scribes Joseph had the plates hidden away.

Joseph used the head in hat method to "translate" most of the Book of Mormon.

Why did he need the plates at all?