Whose fault? Yours or the church's?

[Taq Man]

A "cover up" implies two things

1. Actively trying to hide, withhold or destroy any and all documents related to what someone is trying to cover up

2. Denying the existence of said documents


Ignoring it or de-emphasizing it is not the same as a cover up.

Call it what you want to, at the end of the day the church is trying to deceive people about the manner in which the plates were "translated"

One need look no further than the pictures in Primary and on the churches website and in the general knowledge of the membership who would look at my Avatar and immediatly think "anti Mormon lies".

[Tex]

Call it what you want to, at the end of the day the church is trying to deceive people about the manner in which the plates were "translated"

One need look no further than the pictures in Primary and on the churches website and in the general knowledge of the membership who would look at my Avatar and immediatly think "anti Mormon lies".

A lot of them might just think, "bitter apostate."

[TripletDaddy]

To me, the issue of the hat and seer stone is not a make or break issue for anyone, but it does add to the pile. To me the make or break issue with it is the handling of the issue by the church leadership.

For me, there is only one make or break issue in the Church. Do I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Everything else is interesting diversion.

If we base our belief (or disbelief) in the diversion, then I would agree that the LDS Church is going to be tough to swallow. In fact, any religion would be tough to swallow because they all contain hypocrisies, mistakes, strange histories, etc.

Add to that list medicine, science, law, and most principles of secular knowledge....as those are all evolving. What was once held as scientific or medical truth is now mocked as absurdity.

This is just my personal opinion, of course. I do find it somewhat ironic that this very thread contains pictures and links to information that is allegedly being ensconced nefariously by the Church. I guess I don't find that accusation to be terribly persuasive, at least not as it pertains to this particular issue. It was in a South Park episode, for crying out loud. It isn't that secret, is it?

[TripletDaddy]

A lot of them might just think, "bitter apostate."

it is good to see you here, adding nothing as usual. Are you bored over at cougarguard?

[Indy Coug]

it is good to see you here, adding nothing as usual. Are you bored over at cougarguard?

I think cougartalk.com gets more traffic than CG these days.

EDIT: Apparently, that domain name has been acquired by someone else for a completely different purpose. :-P Clicker beware. Cougartalk.com predated Cougarboard as a BYU sports messageboard.

[LA Ute]

One need look no further than the pictures in Primary and on the churches website and in the general knowledge of the membership who would look at my Avatar and immediatly [sic] think "anti Mormon lies".

Well, when you use a graphic copyrighted by the Institute for Religious Research, a well-known anti-Mormon group, for your avatar, you can expect some skepticism as to your bona fides.

[Indy Coug]

Well, when you use a graphic copyrighted by the Institute for Religious Research, a well-known anti-Mormon group, for your avatar, you can expect some skepticism as to your bona fides.

BWAHAHA!!!

[TripletDaddy]

Well, when you use a graphic copyrighted by the Institute for Religious Research, a well-known anti-Mormon group, for your avatar, you can expect some skepticism as to your bona fides.

good point. you should give him the link to farms, the source of several of your rebuttals!

[LA Ute]

good point. you should give him the link to farms, the source of several of your rebuttals!

Still smarting over how I bested you in the BofM allegory debate, are you?

[TripletDaddy]

Still smarting over how I bested you in the BofM allegory debate, are you?

link?

[LA Ute]

link?

I respect you too much to bring up those harrowing posts again. At the time, other CUF-ers were begging me to lay off, on humanitarian grounds. It's an episode I am not proud of.

[Taq Man]

Well, when you use a graphic copyrighted by the Institute for Religious Research, a well-known anti-Mormon group, for your avatar, you can expect some skepticism as to your bona fides.

Who gives a shit where the picture came from?

It shows more truth about what actually happened than the churches official pictures do. Based on the pics and what we know of history the anti site would be more "bona fide" than the churchs.

[UtahDan]

Who gives a shit where the picture came from?

It shows more truth about what actually happened than the churches official pictures do. Based on the pics and what we know of history the anti site would be more "bona fide" than the churchs.

Easy big fella. That was a light hearted jab from LA. It has been nice to get you over here finally; let's not get so heated that this thread goes off track.

[Taq Man]

Easy big fella. That was a light hearted jab from LA. It has been nice to get you over here finally; let's not get so heated that this thread goes off track.

Sorry, consider my laundry officially untwisted.

[Taq Man]

I agree that this issue is pretty minor in the scope of things.

However, it does illustrate in a simple way the problem with Mormons being uninformed about the history of the church, and the leaderships complicity in that ignorance.

As an aside. The issue that drove my wife and myself out of the church was polygamy. When we sat down with her parents to discuss our concerns her father who was Bishop of his ward in VA at the time told us that Joseph was not a polygamist that those women were only sealed to him after he was dead. Any attempt to discuss it with him was met with a sigh and the comment that Satan had really got his hooks into us.

How do you have a serious discussion with someone you love (I actually love both of my inlaws) when they have no clue about the real nature of the discussion.